Appeal for new information

[Caroline R]

I think, by the way Steve describes her state of "in love" he believes fantasy of women turning to complicit, malleable mush when they fall in love.

Five murders would be enough to bring any 'normal' individual back down to earth. There would have to be something lacking in your character to ignore something of that magnitude!!

[hourglass]

It is nice to confidentally feel that way and I do too.  However, the undeniable facts are that some women for various reasons fail to call in the police.  The Ian Huntley, Moors Murders, Rose West and numerous others show this to be the case.

It is well recorded that many women stand by while their children are abused and tolerate all manner of criminal behaviour.  I would firmly say I would not tolerate it now and hope I would have the strength of character when I was less than half my age to do the right thing.

I am not making excuses for JM but neither do I find it unbeliveable that she could find it difficult to act immediately.  I do not know her and she is not the sort of person I would ever want to know.  The police probably do know a lot more and that is probably where the Public Immunity Issues come in.

[Caroline R]

It is nice to confidentally feel that way and I do too.  However, the undeniable facts are that some women for various reasons fail to call in the police.  The Ian Huntley, Moors Murders, Rose West and numerous others show this to be the case.

It is well recorded that many women stand by while their children are abused and tolerate all manner of criminal behaviour.  I would firmly say I would not tolerate it now and hope I would have the strength of character when I was less than half my age to do the right thing.

I am not making excuses for JM but neither do I find it unbeliveable that she could find it difficult to act immediately.  I do not know her and she is not the sort of person I would ever want to know.  The police probably do know a lot more and that is probably where the Public Immunity Issues come in.

Rose West was just as guilty as Fred West and Maxine Carr had suffered domestic abuse from Huntley - she was also absent when Huntley murdered the two children so may have been unaware or in denial about what he'd done. JB is supposed to have told Julie quite clearly of his intention to kill the family months before the event and on discovering that he just may have acted upon his intention, she goes back to bed. The following day when she is left in no uncertain terms that the man she loves, the man she sleeps with and intends to marry - has indeed killed five people including two young children, she doesn't run for the hills or freak out or act oddly, she volunteers to identify the bodies and then discusses with AE various points about them. No mention of tears or being physically distressed as you might imagine someone to be who has just been hit with the full force of their loved ones evil deeds! I understand that she failed to call the police - she failed to call the police up until the point where JB ended their relationship! Did her conscience finally kick in or did she seek revenge  and act upon her earlier threat of 'if I can't have you, no one will'?

[maggie]

Rose West was just as guilty as Fred West and Maxine Carr had suffered domestic abuse from Huntley - she was also absent when Huntley murdered the two children so may have been unaware or in denial about what he'd done. JB is supposed to have told Julie quite clearly of his intention to kill the family months before the event and on discovering that he just may have acted upon his intention, she goes back to bed. The following day when she is left in no uncertain terms that the man she loves, the man she sleeps with and intends to marry - has indeed killed five people including two young children, she doesn't run for the hills or freak out or act oddly, she volunteers to identify the bodies and then discusses with AE various points about them. No mention of tears or being physically distressed as you might imagine someone to be who has just been hit with the full force of their loved ones evil deeds! I understand that she failed to call the police - she failed to call the police up until the point where JB ended their relationship! Did her conscience finally kick in or did she seek revenge  and act upon her earlier threat of 'if I can't have you, no one will'?

Fab post Caroline....in a nutshell you have explained why Julie's tale of dark deads and murder are a fantasy. This is not normal behaviour. She was undeiably an intelligent young woman. She was also ore streetwise than many she would never have behaved that way. Imo

[Patti]

Rose West was just as guilty as Fred West and Maxine Carr had suffered domestic abuse from Huntley - she was also absent when Huntley murdered the two children so may have been unaware or in denial about what he'd done. JB is supposed to have told Julie quite clearly of his intention to kill the family months before the event and on discovering that he just may have acted upon his intention, she goes back to bed. The following day when she is left in no uncertain terms that the man she loves, the man she sleeps with and intends to marry - has indeed killed five people including two young children, she doesn't run for the hills or freak out or act oddly, she volunteers to identify the bodies and then discusses with AE various points about them. No mention of tears or being physically distressed as you might imagine someone to be who has just been hit with the full force of their loved ones evil deeds! I understand that she failed to call the police - she failed to call the police up until the point where JB ended their relationship! Did her conscience finally kick in or did she seek revenge  and act upon her earlier threat of 'if I can't have you, no one will'?

Excellent post Caroline. I know this sounds bitter but, she had no conscience. No will rephrase that, because it was not conscience she had, it was revenge, it is obvious that she gained her story from other and newspapers.  Not once in her statements does she embark on any real evidence as to what really happened that night...

[Caroline R]

Thanks girls! I just don't buy the 'blinded by love' notion - I could understand if she had just been suspicious about his involvement, but according to her he had talked at lengths about his plans and then admits to arranging the whole thing after the event. And she carries on as normal - I don't recall reading any statement which refers to Julie acting strangely.

[hourglass]

Agreed Rose West and Hindley were every bit as guilty but chose not to stop their men.  Maxine Carr knew what Huntley was like and chose to help him cover things up.  Her only concern was she think he'd had another woman round.

My problem with the JB and JM saga and the rest of their gang is that they were all repulsive self-centred, spolit brats who think the World owe them a living.  The were involved in drugs and all sorts of crime even before the murders.  In China we would have shot the lot of them with no regrets.  They would have been dead, buried and forgotten by November 1985.

I am not defending JM in the slightest but I do find it strange that she is condemed for first protecting JB and covering up and then later she is condemed for confessing and putting him in jail.  Lets make our mind up, is she villain or heroine?  I suppose it depends on if you believe JB is guilty or not?

She is continually accused of lying and I agree with you but none of this is new evidence and what do we actually want from it all?  JM could have done better but she did not.  If she had gone to the police and said that JB was planning a massace what would the police have done?  Talk to "Taff" Wells Essex's finest?  Even when confronted with the bodies their initial reaction was to disbelieve what they saw.

[maggie]

Hourglass I find it kind of strange thatyou claim to be westernisedor at least educated but appear to have no problem with people shot for minor offenses.
I know people in the emerging world. I know uneducated illiterate people in the third world.  They are not happy with people being shot in this way. Why do you write these things on this forum. I dot mean any disrespect to your culture but am surprised at your post.

[Patti]

Thanks girls! I just don't buy the 'blinded by love' notion - I could understand if she had just been suspicious about his involvement, but according to her he had talked at lengths about his plans and then admits to arranging the whole thing after the event. And she carries on as normal - I don't recall reading any statement which refers to Julie acting strangely.

Caroline, do you think that when we are young we say things about our parents that we don't always mean?  Just one little remark, like my parents are doing my head in, I wish they would bigger off....It's not a remark that I would ever make, because I loved my parents deeply.  Bit I remember when I was at school, many of my friends had said...I hate my mother...I hate my father....but, not once did I take them seriously....I absolutely hate it when folk talk nastily about their parents....and moan about doing things for them...because I would love to still help my mum and dad, given the chance...

[hourglass]

Hourglass I find it kind of strange thatyou claim to be westernisedor at least educated but appear to have no problem with people shot for minor offenses.
I know people in the emerging world. I know uneducated illiterate people in the third world.  They are not happy with people being shot in this way. Why do you write these things on this western forum.

We do not shoot people for minor offenses, we shoot them for terrorism, murder, drug dealing and massive fraud.  I am not happy with innocent people being shot or for minor offenses and I have not said that.

Or is it that child murder is a minor offense in UK?  I do not think so.

[maggie]

We do not shoot people for minor offenses, we shoot them for terrorism, murder, drug dealing and massive fraud.  I am not happy with innocent people being shot or for minor offenses and I have not said that.

Or is it that child murder is a minor offense in UK?  I do not think so.

I just dont believe you have all the facts that quickly. I dont believe in the taking of life anyway and would not want to live in a country which had the death penalty.

[Patti]

We do not shoot people for minor offenses, we shoot them for terrorism, murder, drug dealing and massive fraud.  I am not happy with innocent people being shot or for minor offenses and I have not said that.

Or is it that child murder is a minor offense in UK?  I do not think so.

Hourglass child murder in this Country is appalling and some only get 7 years, some get life and some get whole terms..... Paedophiles are allowed to walk our streets having served 4 year for f...king a 2 year old....that is not justice. These are people who have been caught and admitted their crimes, yet are freed under our pathetic system....

Jeremy Bamber, claims he is innocent of killing his family and I for one believe him.  Do you know why?  There is not one drop of evidence that puts him in at the crime scene.....You give me evidence and I will except it....  

[hourglass]

Hourglass I find it kind of strange thatyou claim to be westernisedor at least educated but appear to have no problem with people shot for minor offenses.
I know people in the emerging world. I know uneducated illiterate people in the third world.  They are not happy with people being shot in this way. Why do you write these things on this forum. I dot mean any disrespect to your culture but am surprised at your post.

Actually, I know you are not being disrespectful.  China has many faults and the rule of law is one big problem.  It is just that we have different priorities.  Should a village not have access to clean water because we are too busy keeping China's equivalent of Ian Huntley or Ian Brady in comfortable prison for 30 years?

That said China is relatively crime free considering the size of the place.  Largely because everyone knows what happens if you do wrong.

[Caroline R]

Caroline, do you think that when we are young we say things about our parents that we don't always mean?  Just one little remark, like my parents are doing my head in, I wish they would bigger off....It's not a remark that I would ever make, because I loved my parents deeply.  Bit I remember when I was at school, many of my friends had said...I hate my mother...I hate my father....but, not once did I take them seriously....I absolutely hate it when folk talk nastily about their parents....and moan about doing things for them...because I would love to still help my mum and dad, given the chance...

Yes, I know what you mean Patti and like you I couldn't talk about my parents like that - it would be like tempting fate in my eyes!! Also like you I can remember friends talking about hating their mum or dad, usually when they didn't get their own way. They didn't mean it obviously and JB may well have said something similar and perhaps this was the catalyst for Julie's tale!

[maggie]

I believe human rights are just that whether you its about clean water in a village or killing an innocent person. There is no difference.  Every life counts hourglass. I believe China is now rich enough to provide clean water for the villages f China and care about human rights. They have plenty of money to buy up half the countries of the Indian Ocean it seems.