Appeal for new information

[Patti]

Yes, I know what you mean Patti and like you I couldn't talk about my parents like that - it would be like tempting fate in my eyes!! Also like you I can remember friends talking about hating their mum or dad, usually when they didn't get their own way. They didn't mean it obviously and JB may well have said something similar and perhaps this was the catalyst for Julie's tale!

I can relate to that Caroline. Maybe words taken out of context....  :D

[hourglass]

Hourglass child murder in this Country is appalling and some only get 7 years, some get life and some get whole terms..... Paedophiles are allowed to walk our streets having served 4 year for f...king a 2 year old....that is not justice. These are people who have been caught and admitted their crimes, yet are freed under our pathetic system....

Jeremy Bamber, claims he is innocent of killing his family and I for one believe him.  Do you know why?  There is not one drop of evidence that puts him in at the crime scene.....You give me evidence and I will except it....

Hi Patti,  I accept all that but you need a system that can deal with that and it is plain that justice and human rights do not work hand in hand in this country.  Is there a better way?  Probably not but a start would be to get rid of the jury system which plainly does not work and restrict the number of appeals.

But a system that deals effectively with child killers and perverts is likely to be unsympathetic to supposed misscarriages of justice.

For JB I understand exactly where you are coming from and accept that there is little evidience placing him at the scene apart from JM statements and his own bizzare behaviour.  But not all crimes are caught on camera and some do not even have a body.  Even those that are filmed (9/11) have a whole industry that deny them.

If you want to get JB out then we need to undermine the existing evidience or lack of it and I have seen no real attempts to do this apart from saying everyone lied including the police, MI5, Special Branch and anyone else we can think of.  I have seen nothing at all to undermine the original case and I would agree entirely that the investigation was a mess.

[Patti]

I believe human rights are just that whether you its about clean water in a village or killing an innocent person. There is no difference.  Every life counts hourglass. I believe China is now rich enough to provide clean water for the villages f China and care about human rights. They have plenty of money to buy up half the countries of the Indian Ocean it seems.

Maggie I thought China was an oppressed society? More of a dictatorship....might be wrong, maybe hourglass can explain?   

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve_uk

You refer to Charles Marsden so frequently I'm begining to think you just like the sound of his name.  Perhaps you wish you were 'Charles' instead of 'Steve'?  Charles Marsden seems to be a small bit player in the scheme of things. 

We have no idea of the full conversation surrounding  the possibility of WHF being burnt down.  I understand Charles was a computer sales person and that Jeremy was interested in taking the farm and other businesses into the 21st century by using a computer for admin etc.  It could quite simply have been a case of Charles and Jeremy having a conversation along these lines with Charles pointing out that the computer/data would need to be kept free of risk eg fire, theft etc. 

If Charles had question marks about Jeremy why hang out with him?  The pair went on the pull one evening and chatted up two girls.  Jeremy succeeded in getting his girl back to Goldhanger.  Charles crashed on Jeremy's bed only to be awoken by the pair supposedly having sex, probably just a fumble    Jeremy then walked the girl home and Charles legged it.  Both Jeremy and Charles had girlfriends at the time.  Steve this may not fit in with your idea of what was right and proper in the mid 80's but it was how many young people lived until they outgrew the phase.

After Jeremy and Julie stole the money from OCS the pair, along with Charles and Liz Rimmington (Charles' girlfriend), went out for a meal costing £125.  £125 in today's terms is £316.25 which is fair bit for a meal/drinks outside London.  Why accept a relatively expensive meal out if you have ?'s about the payers integrity?

(Hey April1 you live in the area?  Is the Frog and Bean wine bar still going?  It sounds happening.  Perhaps we could hook up and go on the pull?  I have to admit my pulling power is not what it once was but I scrub up ok and if the lighting is subdued I reckon I could be in with a chance  )

Because Charles Marsden didn't put two and two together about the possibility of the farm burning down with five family members under the same roof until five family members died eight months later. Jeremy tried to keep Charles sweet only a day after the murders but I'm afraid by then Charles like Julie smelt more than a rat.

[maggie]

Maggie I thought China was an oppressed society? More of a dictatorship....might be wrong, maybe hourglass can explain?   

Very much Payti am surprised some one as eloquent as hourglass is not more liberal.

[hourglass]

I believe human rights are just that whether you its about clean water in a village or killing an innocent person. There is no difference.  Every life counts hourglass. I believe China is now rich enough to provide clean water for the villages f China and care about human rights. They have plenty of money to buy up half the countries of the Indian Ocean it seems.

Actually we have not enough money.  China is either a rich country with a lot of poor people or a poor country with a lot of rich people.

It is often claimed that we have a surplus of $3 Trillion Dollars.  Well divide that by 1.5 billion people and it is $2000 per head and that goes nowhere.  Most of the money is in US treasury stock so if we cash it in the west would collapse and so would we.  Then we all have no clean water or food for that matter.

Every life does not count the same.  The life of an innocent child or a peodophile?  Is Ian Brady worth as much as the health of an entire village?  That is the scale of things.  The west is so wealthly built on the poverty of other countries that you can indulge your beliefs.  Countless millions around the world can not afford that luxury.

[Caroline R]

Hi Patti,  I accept all that but you need a system that can deal with that and it is plain that justice and human rights do not work hand in hand in this country.  Is there a better way?  Probably not but a start would be to get rid of the jury system which plainly does not work and restrict the number of appeals.

But a system that deals effectively with child killers and perverts is likely to be unsympathetic to supposed misscarriages of justice.

For JB I understand exactly where you are coming from and accept that there is little evidience placing him at the scene apart from JM statements and his own bizzare behaviour.  But not all crimes are caught on camera and some do not even have a body.  Even those that are filmed (9/11) have a whole industry that deny them.

If you want to get JB out then we need to undermine the existing evidience or lack of it and I have seen no real attempts to do this apart from saying everyone lied including the police, MI5, Special Branch and anyone else we can think of.  I have seen nothing at all to undermine the original case and I would agree entirely that the investigation was a mess.

I don't think you have been here long enough to read the extensive contributions from members to make such a claim. We only have access to a fraction of the evidence that was available at trial and none of the physical exhibits - we can therefore only work within the confines of information we have to hand.

[maggie]

Come on hourglass a huge sink port in hambantota...how does that bring clean water to your people?

[hourglass]

Maggie I thought China was an oppressed society? More of a dictatorship....might be wrong, maybe hourglass can explain?   

No China is quite democratic by our standards.  Some 80 million people are involved in The Party which is more than the population of this country.  Agreed we only have One Party but do you benefit by having more?  Most people in the UK do not bother to vote and what is the actual difference between your three parties?  Two are working together and Labor ran the place for the last 13 years and got you into two wars and bankrupted the place.

You need to slow down with your posts, do you know how difficult it is for me to reply?

[Patti]

Actually we have not enough money.  China is either a rich country with a lot of poor people or a poor country with a lot of rich people.

It is often claimed that we have a surplus of $3 Trillion Dollars.  Well divide that by 1.5 billion people and it is $2000 per head and that goes nowhere.  Most of the money is in US treasury stock so if we cash it in the west would collapse and so would we.  Then we all have no clean water or food for that matter.

Every life does not count the same.  The life of an innocent child or a peodophile?  Is Ian Brady worth as much as the health of an entire village?  That is the scale of things.  The west is so wealthly built on the poverty of other countries that you can indulge your beliefs.  Countless millions around the world can not afford that luxury.

Disagree there sorry    Each Country has a government which is responsible for their own Country. It is no fault of another Country that their Country suffers.  I find that remark unsociable... 

[hourglass]

Come on hourglass a huge sink port in hambantota...how does that bring clean water to your people?

That is one port against what?  US has a 600 ship navy and bases all around the World.  UK is not far behind.  Even your small modern Navy is more powerful than most other countries bar USA, Japan, and France.  Again, bases everywhere, investments all over the World.

We open one port and refurbish one old aircraft carrier and we are accused of trying to take over the world.

[Caroline R]

No China is quite democratic by our standards.  Some 80 million people are involved in The Party which is more than the population of this country.  Agreed we only have One Party but do you benefit by having more?  Most people in the UK do not bother to vote and what is the actual difference between your three parties?  Two are working together and Labor ran the place for the last 13 years and got you into two wars and bankrupted the place.

You need to slow down with your posts, do you know how difficult it is for me to reply?

We aren't bankrupt

[hourglass]

Disagree there sorry    Each Country has a government which is responsible for their own Country. It is no fault of another Country that their Country suffers.  I find that remark unsociable...

Actually, low prices and low inflation in the west is financed entirely by low wages in the far east and poverty in Africa.  You think slavery was abolished in 1807?  Who do you think made your shoes?  The nice dress you get for only £30?  That flat screen TV for £400?

[Patti]

No China is quite democratic by our standards.  Some 80 million people are involved in The Party which is more than the population of this country.  Agreed we only have One Party but do you benefit by having more?  Most people in the UK do not bother to vote and what is the actual difference between your three parties?  Two are working together and Labor ran the place for the last 13 years and got you into two wars and bankrupted the place.

You need to slow down with your posts, do you know how difficult it is for me to reply?

I don't understand how I need to slow down with my posts and don't understand how it is difficult for you to reply to them....I have friends that work in China....So please don't underestimate my adaptation. 

[hourglass]

We aren't bankrupt

Oh yes you are.  Government cutting back all the time.  Growth at less than 0.2%.

Don't worry it affects me, I'm British now too.  Make pledge to the Queen.