Author Topic: Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?  (Read 12207 times)

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Offline maggie

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2012, 11:31:AM »
Jam, I do understand what the sentence means. The comma explains that rather than going to WHF to take a gun back, he PUT a gun back whilst he was there. But does that not strike you as being a curious aside, as in, why would it be necessary to say it at all. It might have been "straightened a rug" or "put away a cup" One has to ask why he went there the previous evening, if he didn't go there specifically to put a gun back.

You can probably guess that I don't all into your lemming catagory. I have infinite respect for what Mike is doing, he throws some interesting theories into the mix but it doesn't mean I agree with everything he, or anybody else says, without consideration. The greatest difference I can find between the two factions is that those of us who are pro Jeremy don't see him as any kind of saint. He frequently presents himself as somebody that I would choose to have nothing to do with, but the way we present ourselves to others isn't necessarily who we are and which of us at times, has not tried to impress others, stretching the truth and letting our mouths run away with us in order to do so. However, those who are pro family would have us believe that the entire group of the wider family are the personification of all that is pure and good. That none of them has ever had a devious or underhand thought. That they have never once thought about what they would gain from Jeremy's conviction, or lose if he found innocent. This simply isn't true. We humans are bound by the same psychology whether we're toddlers trying to take a coveted toy from another toddler, a schoolchild swapping tatty trainers for somone elses better ones, an adult defaming the character of a fellow job applicant................or relatives for whom it becomes possible to increase their wealth, but for one family member.
Excellent post April. ;D ;D

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2012, 11:37:AM »
Jam, I do understand what the sentence means. The comma explains that rather than going to WHF to take a gun back, he PUT a gun back whilst he was there. But does that not strike you as being a curious aside, as in, why would it be necessary to say it at all. It might have been "straightened a rug" or "put away a cup" One has to ask why he went there the previous evening, if he didn't go there specifically to put a gun back.

You can probably guess that I don't all into your lemming catagory. I have infinite respect for what Mike is doing, he throws some interesting theories into the mix but it doesn't mean I agree with everything he, or anybody else says, without consideration. The greatest difference I can find between the two factions is that those of us who are pro Jeremy don't see him as any kind of saint. He frequently presents himself as somebody that I would choose to have nothing to do with, but the way we present ourselves to others isn't necessarily who we are and which of us at times, has not tried to impress others, stretching the truth and letting our mouths run away with us in order to do so. However, those who are pro family would have us believe that the entire group of the wider family are the personification of all that is pure and good. That none of them has ever had a devious or underhand thought. That they have never once thought about what they would gain from Jeremy's conviction, or lose if he found innocent. This simply isn't true. We humans are bound by the same psychology whether we're toddlers trying to take a coveted toy from another toddler, a schoolchild swapping tatty trainers for somone elses better ones, an adult defaming the character of a fellow job applicant................or relatives for whom it becomes possible to increase their wealth, but for one family member.

I think your description of Pros versus anti's (for want of a better description), is ridiculous, it's an attempt to stereotype, the truth of the matter is that there are fanaticals amongst both groups, and there are genuine reasonable people amongst both groups, to suggest otherwise is in essence one of my pet grumbles and it simply shows a tendancy to catagorise.

Take the title of this thread for example, it is leading, innaccurate and quite frankly the type of thing I have come to expect from certain posters (on both sides). If it was worded as a question, such as "hey look what I've found, what do you think this means?", then I have no problem, but that's not the case.

What is even worse, is that the original poster in this thread, spends a great deal of time and effort berrating other people for making assumptions and coming up with things that can not be substantiated or not based on anything of merit, but only if they don't conform to her views. Hypocrisy is king it seems.  ::)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 11:56:AM by -The Jam- »

Caroline R

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2012, 12:26:PM »
I think your description of Pros versus anti's (for want of a better description), is ridiculous, it's an attempt to stereotype, the truth of the matter is that there are fanaticals amongst both groups, and there are genuine reasonable people amongst both groups, to suggest otherwise is in essence one of my pet grumbles and it simply shows a tendancy to catagorise.

Take the title of this thread for example, it is leading, innaccurate and quite frankly the type of thing I have come to expect from cerain posters (on both sides). If it was worded as a question, such as "hey look what I've found, what do you think this means?", then I have no problem, but that's not the case.

What is even worse, is that the original poster in this threads, spends a great deal of time and effort berrating other people for making assumptions and coming with things that can not be substantiated or not based on anything of merit, but only if they don't conform to her views. Hypocrisy is king it seems.  ::)

And evidently the biggest hypocrite is you!  Can't be substantiated? It was said by David Boutflour! I didn't drag it out of the air or the pages of a book! You can take every word you have written and apply each and every one of them right back at yourself!

If you were so concerned about a 'comma' why didn't you mention it? I asked what people thought about it and I specifically asked YOU when I first posted it and was met with silence! However to then just dismiss it out of hand simply because you can't explain it is frankly 'childish'! I don't know about toy guns but you have certainly thrown yours well and truly out of the pram!

While you sit there taking the moral high ground let me remind you that when I have a criticism of any other poster, I answer their post, what I don't do is make a thread in the Off Topic section and call it - oh I don't know, something like 'Caroline vs Andi - No holds barred' where I can write childish comments without their knowledge and have a jolly good weez with my online chums!

By the way, what on earth has something David Boutflour said/wrote got to do with Mike? That's a rhetorical question by the way - I'm really not interested in your answer - all I need do with your previous comments is 'consider the source'!

-Harters-

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2012, 12:29:PM »
And evidently the biggest hypocrite is you!  Can't be substantiated? It was said by David Boutflour! I didn't drag it out of the air or the pages of a book! You can take every word you have written and apply each and every one of them right back at yourself!

If you were so concerned about a 'comma' why didn't you mention it? I asked what people thought about it and I specifically asked YOU when I first posted it and was met with silence! However to then just dismiss it out of hand simply because you can't explain it is frankly 'childish'! I don't know about toy guns but you have certainly thrown yours well and truly out of the pram!

While you sit there taking the moral high ground let me remind you that when I have a criticism of any other poster, I answer their post, what I don't do is make a thread in the Off Topic section and call it - oh I don't know, something like 'Caroline vs Andi - No holds barred' where I can write childish comments without their knowledge and have a jolly good weez with my online chums!

By the way, what on earth has something David Boutflour said/wrote got to do with Mike? That's a rhetorical question by the way - I'm really not interested in your answer - all I need do with your previous comments is 'consider the source'!

My above posts are quite clear in conveying my views.

mertol22

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2012, 12:36:PM »
My views on jb are at best private and no concern of the forum, what i can say if his attitude seems offputting to some , to me its a sign of being a survivour , before the events of 7th August 1985 and up to this very day, there does seem among some members a constructed effort to shoot down like a german biplane in WW1 any possibility of him being not guilty, even if i thought he was even i would not be totally sure humans make mistakes , in everything . Mike can post any new topic i read somewhere the forum is for debate.

-Harters-

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2012, 12:46:PM »
My views on jb are at best private and no concern of the forum, what i can say if his attitude seems offputting to some , to me its a sign of being a survivour , before the events of 7th August 1985 and up to this very day, there does seem among some members a constructed effort to shoot down like a german biplane in WW1 any possibility of him being not guilty, even if i thought he was even i would not be totally sure humans make mistakes , in everything . Mike can post any new topic i read somewhere the forum is for debate.

Perhaps so, but would you agree that the flip side is that there are some members who are so set on there being a MOJ that they contrive and sneak a meaning out of anything in an attempt to pull the wool over peoples eyes like a klingon bird of prey with a cloaking device activated (  :P ).

Regardless of your view on the case, you want the truth right?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 12:49:PM by -The Jam- »

Offline maggie

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2012, 01:09:PM »
My views on jb are at best private and no concern of the forum, what i can say if his attitude seems offputting to some , to me its a sign of being a survivour , before the events of 7th August 1985 and up to this very day, there does seem among some members a constructed effort to shoot down like a german biplane in WW1 any possibility of him being not guilty, even if i thought he was even i would not be totally sure humans make mistakes , in everything . Mike can post any new topic i read somewhere the forum is for debate.
Well said mertol, there should always be a modicum of doubt apart from anything else.

Caroline R

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2012, 01:18:PM »
Perhaps so, but would you agree that the flip side is that there are some members who are so set on there being a MOJ that they contrive and sneak a meaning out of anything in an attempt to pull the wool over peoples eyes like a klingon bird of prey with a cloaking device activated (  :P ).

Regardless of your view on the case, you want the truth right?

You want 'your' truth! I asked a question and even posted the source which is more than a lot of people here do! You couldn't answer the question and were contradicted on the issue of when the keys were handed back and the visit to Witham - you didn't like being wrong!

I didn't contrive anything, I posted the source! However, the information was already in the public domain! Now, 'they' don't have the official source for their article but perhaps you can contact the author of the following web page and accuse them of trying to "Pulling the wool"? I'm sure they too will 'consider the source'

http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/robert-boutflour.html

-Harters-

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2012, 01:47:PM »
You want 'your' truth! I asked a question and even posted the source which is more than a lot of people here do! You couldn't answer the question and were contradicted on the issue of when the keys were handed back and the visit to Witham - you didn't like being wrong!

I didn't contrive anything, I posted the source! However, the information was already in the public domain! Now, 'they' don't have the official source for their article but perhaps you can contact the author of the following web page and accuse them of trying to "Pulling the wool"? I'm sure they too will 'consider the source'

http://youknowwhokilledyoudontyou.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/robert-boutflour.html

No I'm quite happy with 'THE' truth, whatever that may be.


Caroline R

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2012, 01:53:PM »
No I'm quite happy with 'THE' truth, whatever that may be.

Good! That makes two of us!

-Harters-

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2012, 02:01:PM »
Good! That makes two of us!

So would you agree that your title of this thread, does not match the document relied upon to justify it?

Certainly it is an interpretation, and it may well be the case, but you have come to that assumption, either by yourself or by viewing comments made by others. The reality is that you cannot be certain what the 'cryptic' line of text refers to. No amount of personal attacks, jibes or goads alter that fact.

Offline lookout

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2012, 02:11:PM »
Let's face it,Hartley, " us lot " put across more " theories/evidence " in saying that JB didn't do it,as opposed to you and others with their meagre input who say that he did. So don't knock us.

Instead of pulling posts to shreds,why not be constructive in your thinking by not looking for the obvious within the case,,of what the JB " bashers " have written.

It's easier to prosecute than it is to defend.

-Harters-

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2012, 02:18:PM »
Let's face it,Hartley, " us lot " put across more " theories/evidence " in saying that JB didn't do it,as opposed to you and others with their meagre input who say that he did. So don't knock us.

Instead of pulling posts to shreds,why not be constructive in your thinking by not looking for the obvious within the case,,of what the JB " bashers " have written.

It's easier to prosecute than it is to defend.

You're catagorising again, the level of my 'individual' input on this forum is entirely up to me (admins/mods excluded of course).

Caroline R

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Re: Why Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2012, 02:25:PM »
So would you agree that your title of this thread, does not match the document relied upon to justify it?

Certainly it is an interpretation, and it may well be the case, but you have come to that assumption, either by yourself or by viewing comments made by others. The reality is that you cannot be certain what the 'cryptic' line of text refers to. No amount of personal attacks, jibes or goads alter that fact.

To you, it's cryptic, to me it isn't - perhaps that's due to whatever biases we already hold. To me it's quite clear he (David Boutflour) was discussing going back to White House Farm on the Saturday when he states "Peter had been back 'there' previously on the night before, put a gun back" . They only got the keys on Friday, he's talking about going there on Saturday so the night 'previous' is Friday night. I see no reason why he would mention he put a gun away in a cupboard or where ever because in Ann's account of the following day she talks about how she couldn't believe the police had left guns around the place. Why would he put one gun 'away' and leave the others out.



What do other people think? (which was the question in the first place)

However, just for YOU I have amended the title!!

-Harters-

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Re: Did Peter Eaton Return a Gun Back To WHF on 9th Aug 1985?
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2012, 02:34:PM »
I tend to look at it as would it be enough to prove to somebody else, in a court of law for example, my opinion is that it's not even close.

I'm also suspicious that Mike hasn't made too much of it where as he has thrown his weight behind lesser anomolies.

Regardless of your views, I have made my point, kudos to you for changing the title.