The RIDDLE of the BACK STAIRCASE.

[mertol22]

It wouldn't matter if indeed the shooter was dead,Mertol.

just my case Lookout there is no real proof the shooter was dead prior to the raid at ot around 07.30 am

[lookout]

just my case Lookout there is no real proof the shooter was dead prior to the raid at ot around 07.30 am

I get you,Mertol.There wasn't any proof at all.

[campion]

Hi Patti, Your Post #200  - your comment " the third door is bricked up"- you must be referring to the aerial view of WHF yard and farmhouse, in all probability taken by Neville or a passenger, from an aeroplane, prior to the horrendous event. That photograph has different foliage and vehicles in the yard. The traffic cones observed by Lugg are visible here.
My  own theory of that 'bricked up doorway is that it had been the rear access into the farmstead. The. Lower 2-storey  part to the left is that which will have been a bake house and smokery, heated from the massive fireplace, as these buildings used to have.
The door to which I was referring, in connection with the SECOND attempt by The TFG to enter the building,is shown on Hartley's subsequently drawn plans. Apart from Jeremy's hastily (very sketchy but a credit to him) drawn plans, there were was no infomation provided on this area at the Trial. This omission has always concerned me.

[campion]

I refer to HMEssex's Post #201.
It is reassuring that he/she can make out a figure on the floor between the end of the settle and the doorway.
Now will you bear with me whilst I summarise how  I theorise what happened at WHF after the arrival of the Initial reconnoitre of the EP TFG, summoned by Bews, after being sh.t scarred by the 'so-called 'trick of light' ?

Collins saw(by means of a mirror?) a female (Sheila?), through the laundry room window, located above the washing machine, and to the left of the backdoor as viewed from the yard.
It has become light as of this time. We know dawn on 7august 1985 occurred at approx 5.30a.m.
Having made known to Ch Super George Harris, their observations, Harris wants Jeremy out of earshot for the intended breaching of the doorway.
Thus Harris suggests to Jeremy that he may like call someone. N.B. he does not offer Jeremy the facilities of the police communications. Instead he gets him out of the way for the impending assault on the back door.
This was roughly at 6 O'clock. Unfortunately this went 'pear-shaped', when Woodcock clashed with Sheila in the doorway (hence we see the figure in the darkened doorway)
After this horrendous debacle, it is necessary for the Commander of the operation to reassess the situation.
They cannot re-enter the Farmhouse through the open doorway, because of Sheila laying there, and this situation being likely to be the subject of an investigation by CID.
Through the now open doorway someone notices a door opposite and it follows that it is decided to make the entry through that doorway, in order to obviate disturbing a crime scene.
To put this into effect, at approx 7.30 a.m.? it is once again necessary to get Jeremy out of earshot. This is surreptitiously achieved by the 'friendly' George Harris requesting Jeremy to show him the Opium field, some distance away(we know not where).
With the breaching of the other back door, the 'Raid Team are enabled to enter the premises, and then meet up with the problem of getting through the kitchen door, with Neville's body blocking it. Such is life and ..... !
I trust some of you may now see my reasoning for the lighting conditions of the enigmatic photo.

[lookout]

I understand fully,Campion.
 It's a thousand pities that Jeremy wasn't as wise then as he is now,to have noticed that he may have asked too many questions at that time. Though a good job he realised the " face at the window " incident,,which was nicely covered up.

[campion]

Phew! Thank you for reading my long-winded post. It fair wore me out. There must be other questions to be considered, and hopefully it will be put into perspective why it took the selected Raid Team, supposedly two and a half hours,or so, to officially effect the entry to WHF.
It does cause me some consternation, as to why, if Special Branch were involved since the night before, the massacre was allowed to 'happen'. Oh yes that is why so much of this case is subject to Secrecy Rules, and the Operation is called Stokenchurch, after the communications system which was then becoming 'operative'.

[lookout]

Campion,,I love reading your posts,,they're superb and put things in perspective.
A great pity that only the police knew of the Special Branch involvement,as it gave them their well-needed break from getting their collars felt by those above them for the unsolved crimes in the area at the time. The police were over a barrel working on the WHF case,and with a little help from " their friends " were able to cobble together events that took place.

Something that did strike me was because there was involvement with Special Branch and Secrecy Rules,etc,,that nothing in the way of a letter was found inside the house regarding injury/death.
My brother who worked for the government before he retired,had to carry a letter at all times in case of accident or indeed death. This letter had to be passed/presented to the nearest police station in the event of such. Information that brother had on his person was top secret,so briefcase had to be handcuffed to him at times when he travelled abroad.
However,,I still maintain that because of Nevilles' past involvements,,there should have been some form of notification and it would have been in his safe.

[Steve_uk]

I refer to HMEssex's Post #201.
It is reassuring that he/she can make out a figure on the floor between the end of the settle and the doorway.
Now will you bear with me whilst I summarise how  I theorise what happened at WHF after the arrival of the Initial reconnoitre of the EP TFG, summoned by Bews, after being sh.t scarred by the 'so-called 'trick of light' ?

Collins saw(by means of a mirror?) a female (Sheila?), through the laundry room window, located above the washing machine, and to the left of the backdoor as viewed from the yard.
It has become light as of this time. We know dawn on 7august 1985 occurred at approx 5.30a.m.
Having made known to Ch Super George Harris, their observations, Harris wants Jeremy out of earshot for the intended breaching of the doorway.
Thus Harris suggests to Jeremy that he may like call someone. N.B. he does not offer Jeremy the facilities of the police communications. Instead he gets him out of the way for the impending assault on the back door.
This was roughly at 6 O'clock. Unfortunately this went 'pear-shaped', when Woodcock clashed with Sheila in the doorway (hence we see the figure in the darkened doorway)
After this horrendous debacle, it is necessary for the Commander of the operation to reassess the situation.
They cannot re-enter the Farmhouse through the open doorway, because of Sheila laying there, and this situation being likely to be the subject of an investigation by CID.
Through the now open doorway someone notices a door opposite and it follows that it is decided to make the entry through that doorway, in order to obviate disturbing a crime scene.
To put this into effect, at approx 7.30 a.m.? it is once again necessary to get Jeremy out of earshot. This is surreptitiously achieved by the 'friendly' George Harris requesting Jeremy to show him the Opium field, some distance away(we know not where).
With the breaching of the other back door, the 'Raid Team are enabled to enter the premises, and then meet up with the problem of getting through the kitchen door, with Neville's body blocking it. Such is life and ..... !
I trust some of you may now see my reasoning for the lighting conditions of the enigmatic photo.

So Sheila manages to limp upstairs after escaping from four Police Officers and having shot herself once in the neck,climbing over the body of her mother's corpse before finally shooting herself a second time by the bedside cabinet,or she is shot by Police there according to your preference..

[lookout]

If Sheila was posing a threat,armed with a rifle,then there's little alternative.One has to think of their own safety in a situation like that if that's how it ended.

[HMEssex]

I refer to HMEssex's Post #201.
It is reassuring that he/she can make out a figure on the floor between the end of the settle and the doorway.
Now will you bear with me whilst I summarise how  I theorise what happened at WHF after the arrival of the Initial reconnoitre of the EP TFG, summoned by Bews, after being sh.t scarred by the 'so-called 'trick of light' ?

Collins saw(by means of a mirror?) a female (Sheila?), through the laundry room window, located above the washing machine, and to the left of the backdoor as viewed from the yard.
It has become light as of this time. We know dawn on 7august 1985 occurred at approx 5.30a.m.
Having made known to Ch Super George Harris, their observations, Harris wants Jeremy out of earshot for the intended breaching of the doorway.
Thus Harris suggests to Jeremy that he may like call someone. N.B. he does not offer Jeremy the facilities of the police communications. Instead he gets him out of the way for the impending assault on the back door.
This was roughly at 6 O'clock. Unfortunately this went 'pear-shaped', when Woodcock clashed with Sheila in the doorway (hence we see the figure in the darkened doorway)
After this horrendous debacle, it is necessary for the Commander of the operation to reassess the situation.
They cannot re-enter the Farmhouse through the open doorway, because of Sheila laying there, and this situation being likely to be the subject of an investigation by CID.
Through the now open doorway someone notices a door opposite and it follows that it is decided to make the entry through that doorway, in order to obviate disturbing a crime scene.
To put this into effect, at approx 7.30 a.m.? it is once again necessary to get Jeremy out of earshot. This is surreptitiously achieved by the 'friendly' George Harris requesting Jeremy to show him the Opium field, some distance away(we know not where).
With the breaching of the other back door, the 'Raid Team are enabled to enter the premises, and then meet up with the problem of getting through the kitchen door, with Neville's body blocking it. Such is life and ..... !
I trust some of you may now see my reasoning for the lighting conditions of the enigmatic photo.

That's an interesting theory. The other back door is always obscured by trees in any photographs so it's hard to tell.

(I'm definitely a 'she' by the way 

[campion]

Thank you Lady HMEssex for your erudite comments and personal info.

STEVE UK, Thankyou for your delusional theory of how Sheila got from the back-kitchen doorway to be found upstairs, in the Master Bedroom, to apparently be re posing on the mat, by the bed, in order to be photographed in differing positions, having somehow been shot fatally by a second shot from a gun that should have been made safe , by those in charge of the informatives.
Can you possibly see that it is highly likely that Sheila was rolled up in the carpet, adjacent to where she was laying in the back kitchen?. Then the simple answer is that she was carried bodily upstairs to be initially placed on the bed by unrolling the carpet, which was then placed on the floor by the bed .
Later for the 'informatives', she was placed on that carpet, 'at the far side of the bed'.
Subsequently, she was shot by the bullet, which was placed in the breech of the weapon, by an unknown person, and not checked out.
DO YOU READ THIS LOUD & CLEAR?
Roger and out.

[lookout]

Excellent.

[Steve_uk]

Thank you Lady HMEssex for your erudite comments and personal info.

STEVE UK, Thankyou for your delusional theory of how Sheila got from the back-kitchen doorway to be found upstairs, in the Master Bedroom, to apparently be re posing on the mat, by the bed, in order to be photographed in differing positions, having somehow been shot fatally by a second shot from a gun that should have been made safe , by those in charge of the informatives.
Can you possibly see that it is highly likely that Sheila was rolled up in the carpet, adjacent to where she was laying in the back kitchen?. Then the simple answer is that she was carried bodily upstairs to be initially placed on the bed by unrolling the carpet, which was then placed on the floor by the bed .
Later for the 'informatives', she was placed on that carpet, 'at the far side of the bed'.
Subsequently, she was shot by the bullet, which was placed in the breech of the weapon, by an unknown person, and not checked out.
DO YOU READ THIS LOUD & CLEAR?
Roger and out.

I thought Sheila was reading the Bible,not Plutarch's Lives,though maybe she thought she was Cleopatra as they both gave birth to twins and asked the Police present to roll her up in a carpet. I suppose the silencer mark on Sheila's neck can be explained away somehow,along with going back to the master bedroom when if she's as potty as you make her out to be she would have lain with her sons before law enforcement arrived.

[Jane]

I thought Sheila was reading the Bible,not Plutarch's Lives,though maybe she thought she was Cleopatra as they both gave birth to twins and asked the Police present to roll her up in a carpet. I suppose the silencer mark on Sheila's neck can be explained away somehow,along with going back to the master bedroom when if she's as potty as you make her out to be she would have lain with her sons before law enforcement arrived.

Steve, how I long to believe you wrote that with amused irony, but I suspect to be disappointed. Plutarch's Lives of Noble Greeks and Romans is otherwise known as Parallel Lives. As an adoptee, like Sheila, it has often crossed my mind that I and other adoptees ALL lead lives parallel to those we might have led but for circumstances. It's dependent only on the throw of the celestial dice as to whether our lives are better, worse or simply other.

[campion]

Steve, I sincerely believe from what you write (right), that you are shown to be the 'potty' person.
I grant Cleopatra also had twins, but find it remarkable that, according to you, she requested her police to roll her up in a carpet (surely a rugged lady).
Nowhere have I, or indeed anyone, suggested Sheila asked to be rolled up in a carpet. You yourself come over as potty, or else you are on some other substance.