Did Sheila Suffer An Attachment Disorder Resulting In Affectionless Psychopathy?

[maggie]

Hi Maggie

Best things come in small packages  don't they Rochford 

 

So they say egap...my eldest daughter is 5' ....just.!!...so I could agree with you...maybe

[maggie]

Hi Maggie

Yes not many tall folk from the far east.  The children always look so cute  .  Mind you the Chinese ones are starting to suffer from obesity.

First time my Pete, normally Mr Diplomatic, saw me without heels on he said "Can't believe how small you are"...talk about passion killer  .

They say that to my daughter when she's got her heels on!

[Jane]

I know, egap, his witness statement seems to be pretty unsatisfactory...I suppose as a psychiatrist he diagnosed her according to her symptoms and treated her as such, a psychologist would have looked into her background etc and maybe come to a different conclusion.  I am a big fan of the NHS and have loads to thank them for but symp toms are treated in isolation not holistically.  Whatever Sheila's illness I believe she would have benefitted by a whole body and mind approach. Unfortunately treating someone for their symptomas and bunging medication at them then sending them off to deal without any proper support was not the answer. imo

Maggie, tell me if I've got this wrong, but the way I understand it Sheila visited her doctor to request a reduction in her meds. Because she was still under Dr F, her gp, Dr A didn't have the authority to lower the dosage without his permission. He eventually, within a time frame of Dr A getting round to writtng the letter, giving it to a secretary to type it and get it sent to Dr F, who then probably has to wait until his secretary forwards it to him, agrees by letter, to lower the dose from 100 to 150mg. In the meantime Sheila visits her gp, but cancels the appointment with her regular doctor and sees a locum. For whatever reason, this locum, Dr W agrees to lower the dose to 100mg, effectively and contrary to a senior dr and specialists advice, in one fell swoop, halving an antipsychotic, for a patient, who according to her specialist, was difficult to treat because of her tendencey to miss follow up appointments!!! Dr Fs witness statement makes no mention of any of this. I have been screaming it from the rooftops since I saw the discrepancy only to be told by the "guilty" side that they believe her meds, their dosage and her care to be satisfactory.

[Jane]

Hi Maggie

Best things come in small packages  don't they Rochford 

 

Watch it, Maggie. I'm 5'8" in my feet and 5'12" in my stilettos!!!!!

[lookout]

Hi Maggie

How do we know for sure she was schizophrenic?

egap1,,,Sheila would have succumbed to schizophrenia after her imbibement of cannabis. There would have already been some sort of an " abnormality " hidden within the brain to which the cannabis itself would have triggered. Like alcoholics. Otherwise why aren't those who enjoy a drink,,,alcoholics.?
There are also those who smoke cannabis,recreationally,who aren't schizophrenics.
It's a disturbance in the brain to start with. We don't know her maternal/paternal background.

In answer to your question,,it was the main reason that Sheila had to attend hospital/clinic. Plus the medication she was taking would also tell you that she had quite a severe mental illness,,,which to a professional,,was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenia.

[maggie]

Maggie, tell me if I've got this wrong, but the way I understand it Sheila visited her doctor to request a reduction in her meds. Because she was still under Dr F, her gp, Dr A didn't have the authority to lower the dosage without his permission. He eventually, within a time frame of Dr A getting round to writtng the letter, giving it to a secretary to type it and get it sent to Dr F, who then probably has to wait until his secretary forwards it to him, agrees by letter, to lower the dose from 100 to 150mg. In the meantime Sheila visits her gp, but cancels the appointment with her regular doctor and sees a locum. For whatever reason, this locum, Dr W agrees to lower the dose to 100mg, effectively and contrary to a senior dr and specialists advice, in one fell swoop, halving an antipsychotic, for a patient, who according to her specialist, was difficult to treat because of her tendencey to miss follow up appointments!!! Dr Fs witness statement makes no mention of any of this. I have been screaming it from the rooftops since I saw the discrepancy only to be told by the "guilty" side that they believe her meds, their dosage and her care to be satisfactory.

April first I'm not an expert.  I agree and I seem to remember discussing this before with Keira and some others and I think we came to the conclusion that Sheila possibly only agreed to the injection if it was half strength and half was better than none.  It's true tho April gps know little or nothing about schizophrenia unless they have specialised in it at some point, so no they weren't qualified and certainly in those days communication was a laborious process, no emails in those days.  It all seems pretty sketchy to me April and I also agree that Dr Fergusson said no more than he had to and the police maybe were a little bit cap doffing with the eminent consultant.  They didn't lean on him for answers at all. imo

[maggie]

Hi Maggie

I'm sure she more than compensates with her dark silky hair, darkish complexion and recently gained degree.  Shldn't dent her pulling power  .

No it doesn't seem to, egap.  I get far too much information on that subject.

[maggie]

Watch it, Maggie. I'm 5'8" in my feet and 5'12" in my stilettos!!!!!

So am I April!!

[Steve_uk]

Then who did Bews et al see in the window and how did Bamber escape without a scratch on him... ?

Boheme I'm familiar with those old Georgian country houses at night and there's always something reflecting on a window whether it's a rush of the wind making trees sway or an owl or a bat or the moon's reflection. I have looked at several books and some say they all saw this figure when they were walking down Pages Lane,others say that it was Jeremy himself who grabbed hold of the other Police officers dramatically and ducked down. What were the Police to do in that situation? Jeremy was the one who knew the layout of the property and who had minutes before spun the story of Sheila going berserk with a gun. The Police went along with Jeremy's scenario on this matter and others as well,so much so that bedding and carpets were burned as we now know destroying vital forensic evidence.

As for Jeremy not being marked,well Sheila wasn't either so that proves nothing,though I think it might have been David Balfour who noticed the tiniest of scratches on Jeremy's hands after the murders,but then again Jeremy was a farmer and again this proves nothing. What I would say is that it's not so unbelievable that Jeremy did not need to come into contact with any of his victims apart from Sheila,and it's my belief that she was in a world of her own those last few days and went to her death like a lamb to the slaughter,as did the twins. June was shot initially as she sat up in bed wondering what was going on,and Ralph had been incapacitated with at least one shot either in the bedroom or on the landing,and in my scenario he rushes downstairs to the telephone,he does not attack Jeremy. Jeremy then reloads and pumps the next load of bullets into Ralph,who is after all at this stage a wounded 61 year old man who put up the best struggle he could muster,but still Jeremy does not need to come into contact with him at any stage.

[Steve_uk]

steve  I thought I had read you were starting to be swayed more to Jeremy innocent.  Did I pick that up wrong

Yes I'm afraid you did.

[Steve_uk]

Steve,,why is it that you think that Colin played a larger part in rearing the children.?

They lived with Colin during the week,they played music with Herbie the church man,Colin was the best father taking them to museums,the Royal Albert Hall,showing them how to grow plants,he always read to them at night;they were happy and well-adjusted children. There's a great deal more in Colin's book,and I don't want to be more specific as it's very emotional.

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve those are not my words, they are the words of her doctors and, no matter how hard you try to dismiss it, she was ill. I agree with you, she never hurt anyone, but she certainly frightened people...read her friend's Freddie's statement. This episode which lasted all night through is what led her to be admitted to hospital prior to the tragedy.

To say that she was only a danger to herself is untrue...You don't know that for fact. I base what I say on the documented evidence that is provided. She was not safe to look after her children, they could have come to some harm, this is one of the reasons, they were with Colin. If Sheila had been able, she would have had her children with her, there is no doubt about that. Read Colin's letter to Nevill. Read Freddie's statement. Read the social workers statement. Also read the news of late, there are so many cases similar to that of Sheila.

The last case is that of James Holmes 24 years old. He had never hurt anyone in his life. He was known to be a quiet lad, but was diagnosed as being a paranoid schizophrenic the day before he killed 12 people at a cinema.  He had delusions...but then he cracked, got a gun and blasted away.

Please read up on the illness....it divides the mind into two...one where you are aware and the other were you have no idea of what is happening to you or around you...It is an illness that is so misunderstood and badly researched....27 years on and people still ignore it.

She was a danger Steve, to herself and others....all it takes is a bad episode. 

I haven't read more about the James Holmes case since the incident at Aurora but apparently he had planned this event for months. One could argue the same with Anders Behring Breivik as had one set of Norwegian psychiatrists,whilst two others had a completely different diagnosis.

The point about the above cases was that those two men had thought about harming people even when they were supposedly not in a psychotic state. This is what I meant a week or two ago and was puzzling some members here about not being able to get a schizophrenic to do something which they wouldn't normally do whilst stable.

The point about this crime was that Jeremy had left a loaded rifle on the settle with further ammunition spilled out on the kitchen worktop only a few hours before the murders,don't you see? He is planting this idea in people's minds that Sheila had grabbed hold of this gun in the spur of the moment and gained some revenge or committed a mercy killing,just as he planted the idea that a discussion on the fostering of the children had taken place that previous evening. It shows a lack of understanding on the part of Jeremy about the nature of schizophrenia,because five gun killings would not happen on the spur of the moment,in the very few schizophrenic individuals who are prone to violence. Sheila wasn't going to lose the children at all,because Colin had them most of the time anyway. It's just another indication that the whole of Jeremy's statement is a tissue of lies(just to take one more example Colin overheard Jeremy say he drove as fast as possible to White House Farm from Goldhanger,when we know for a fact that he dawdled).

Of course there is no definitive proof either way,but it's a balance of probabilities,and in my view and had I been a juror I would have been convinced beyond reasonable doubt.

[lookout]

They lived with Colin during the week,they played music with Herbie the church man,Colin was the best father taking them to museums,the Royal Albert Hall,showing them how to grow plants,he always read to them at night;they were happy and well-adjusted children. There's a great deal more in Colin's book,and I don't want to be more specific as it's very emotional.

Steve,,I'm asking you why you think that Sheila wasn't as involved with her children as a mother would normally be. Why wasn't she involved.? Straight answer would be good.

[Steve_uk]

Steve,,I'm asking you why you think that Sheila wasn't as involved with her children as a mother would normally be. Why wasn't she involved.? Straight answer would be good.

Because the medication that she had to take for her schizophrenia slowed her down and made the day-to -day care of two children let alone one too arduous for her.

[grahameb]

Boheme I'm familiar with those old Georgian country houses at night and there's always something reflecting on a window whether it's a rush of the wind making trees sway or an owl or a bat or the moon's reflection. I have looked at several books and some say they all saw this figure when they were walking down Pages Lane,others say that it was Jeremy himself who grabbed hold of the other Police officers dramatically and ducked down. What were the Police to do in that situation? Jeremy was the one who knew the layout of the property and who had minutes before spun the story of Sheila going berserk with a gun. The Police went along with Jeremy's scenario on this matter and others as well,so much so that bedding and carpets were burned as we now know destroying vital forensic evidence.

As for Jeremy not being marked,well Sheila wasn't either so that proves nothing,though I think it might have been David Balfour who noticed the tiniest of scratches on Jeremy's hands after the murders,but then again Jeremy was a farmer and again this proves nothing. What I would say is that it's not so unbelievable that Jeremy did not need to come into contact with any of his victims apart from Sheila,and it's my belief that she was in a world of her own those last few days and went to her death like a lamb to the slaughter,as did the twins. June was shot initially as she sat up in bed wondering what was going on,and Ralph had been incapacitated with at least one shot either in the bedroom or on the landing,and in my scenario he rushes downstairs to the telephone,he does not attack Jeremy. Jeremy then reloads and pumps the next load of bullets into Ralph,who is after all at this stage a wounded 61 year old man who put up the best struggle he could muster,but still Jeremy does not need to come into contact with him at any stage.

You realise of course that all this could just as easily be applied to Sheila?