Author Topic: Did Sheila Suffer An Attachment Disorder Resulting In Affectionless Psychopathy?  (Read 48719 times)

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Offline maggie

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Two very good posts from egap_1 and Grahame,,who have an up to date incite on this terrible illness.
It is true,that little understanding was known of it even in the 1980's as it is something in the " sub-conscious " part of the brain which is triggered unexpectedly and without warning.
It's not the patients' fault,nor anyone else's. I have the lovliest friend who has two sons in an institution due to this illness which began in their teens while at school,,,experimenting with cannabis.
Her husband,,besides working all day,,was up half the night driving,looking for the missing boys who were invariably " spaced-out " in some derelict building somewhere.
They tried everything,,,and because it happened in the 80's " there was no help and so their condition worsened where their behaviour was completely out of character given the family background.
One of them jumped out of a closed window at home. Stealing was a big problem too.
Both boys were lovely characters originally. Loving,kind and thoughtful.Eventually,,my friend had to suffer a grieving process as her sons were " lost " to the point of no return.
hi lookout, what a dreadful story, but it doesn't surprise me at all. 

Offline grahameb

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Two very good posts from egap_1 and Grahame,,who have an up to date incite on this terrible illness.
It is true,that little understanding was known of it even in the 1980's as it is something in the " sub-conscious " part of the brain which is triggered unexpectedly and without warning.
It's not the patients' fault,nor anyone else's. I have the lovliest friend who has two sons in an institution due to this illness which began in their teens while at school,,,experimenting with cannabis.
Her husband,,besides working all day,,was up half the night driving,looking for the missing boys who were invariably " spaced-out " in some derelict building somewhere.
They tried everything,,,and because it happened in the 80's " there was no help and so their condition worsened where their behaviour was completely out of character given the family background.
One of them jumped out of a closed window at home. Stealing was a big problem too.
Both boys were lovely characters originally. Loving,kind and thoughtful.Eventually,,my friend had to suffer a grieving process as her sons were " lost " to the point of no return.
Those who cannot imagine how this illness can take over one's personality really do Sheila an injustice in not acknowledging just how destructive it can be. It can so invade the mind so that a person's original personality is entirely destroyed. It is also one of the most unprodictable of mental illnesses. By saying this we can attach no blame to the person so afflicted with it if they commit unspeakable crimes such as we believe Sheila did.

Offline maggie

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lookout, I was on the wrong thread.  I have often wondered if Sheila was smoking the heavier and much more dangerous skunk.  I have tried to find out on line if skunk or it's equivalent was around in London in the 1980s but to no avail, it's possible that it was in certain sectors tho not as commonly as it now is.  The dangers of paranoa and psychosis from this drug was not known then as it is now.  It can also cause permanent brain damage and personality disorder.  That mixed with schizophrenia or some other kind of mental illness, personality disorder would be a frightening combination. imo

Offline lookout

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lookout, I was on the wrong thread.  I have often wondered if Sheila was smoking the heavier and much more dangerous skunk.  I have tried to find out on line if skunk or it's equivalent was around in London in the 1980s but to no avail, it's possible that it was in certain sectors tho not as commonly as it now is.  The dangers of paranoa and psychosis from this drug was not known then as it is now.  It can also cause permanent brain damage and personality disorder.  That mixed with schizophrenia or some other kind of mental illness, personality disorder would be a frightening combination. imo

Maggie,,so far as I can gather,Sheila also took cocaine,,so on top of cannabis and prescription drugs,it was an explosive combination. I think skunk is stronger. Yes,,it certainly does cause a complete disorder of the brain,,and being addictive,that person is never going to know or realise the difference without it.

Offline maggie

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Those who cannot imagine how this illness can take over one's personality really do Sheila an injustice in not acknowledging just how destructive it can be. It can so invade the mind so that a person's original personality is entirely destroyed. It is also one of the most unprodictable of mental illnesses. By saying this we can attach no blame to the person so afflicted with it if they commit unspeakable crimes such as we believe Sheila did.
That is true Grahame there is still a tendency to not face the facts of this illness.  It is a little like people's fear of the word 'cancer'...mental illness really is one of the last taboos and there often is an attitude that if we ignore it hopefully it will it go away,...not our problem thank goodness..it's based on fear and understandably so. 
It surprises me that so many people jump to Sheila's defence as if she is being accused of cold blooded murder when in fact all the pro's are saying is that there is a strong justification to thinking that Sheila's illness may very well have been the catalyst which caused this to happen...I don't think anybody has ever in any way accused Sheila of premeditated murder. imo

Offline maggie

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Maggie,,so far as I can gather,Sheila also took cocaine,,so on top of cannabis and prescription drugs,it was an explosive combination. I think skunk is stronger. Yes,,it certainly does cause a complete disorder of the brain,,and being addictive,that person is never going to know or realise the difference without it.
Hi lookout, yes skunk is much higher in hallucogens than ordinary cannabis and that is where the paranoa and psychosis comes from.  I read an article by a psychotherapist who stated that she would rather her young daughter was on heroin than skunk...because when you give up heroin it leaves no lasting effect, on the other hand skunk is just as addictive but if you kick the habit of skunk it very often, if not always leaves brain damage in the form of psychosis and acute paranoa....food for thought!

Offline lookout

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That is true Grahame there is still a tendency to not face the facts of this illness.  It is a little like people's fear of the word 'cancer'...mental illness really is one of the last taboos and there often is an attitude that if we ignore it hopefully it will it go away,...not our problem thank goodness..it's based on fear and understandably so. 
It surprises me that so many people jump to Sheila's defence as if she is being accused of cold blooded murder when in fact all the pro's are saying is that there is a strong justification to thinking that Sheila's illness may very well have been the catalyst which caused this to happen...I don't think anybody has ever in any way accused Sheila of premeditated murder. imo

How very true what you say about Sheila. The girl wasn't responsible at all,,and this is what a lot of people can't seem to understand.
That she was more than capable,,and also that she wouldn't have been in her right mind,,therefore if she had remained alive,she'd have been hospitalised for the best part of her life,for her own,and everyone elses safety. Poor soul could have realised that,before the second shot.
As I've said before,,both Sheila and Jeremy were victims in all of this. So terribly sad.

Offline grahameb

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That is true Grahame there is still a tendency to not face the facts of this illness.  It is a little like people's fear of the word 'cancer'...mental illness really is one of the last taboos and there often is an attitude that if we ignore it hopefully it will it go away,...not our problem thank goodness..it's based on fear and understandably so. 
It surprises me that so many people jump to Sheila's defence as if she is being accused of cold blooded murder when in fact all the pro's are saying is that there is a strong justification to thinking that Sheila's illness may very well have been the catalyst which caused this to happen...I don't think anybody has ever in any way accused Sheila of premeditated murder. imo
What I find amazing is that those who have sympathy for Sheila and her illness say that Jeremy is a psychopathic killer. Yet believing him to be so afflicted with such an illness show little sympathy with him if he is so afflicted. This kind of behaviour really does show a rather ignorant opinion within those who make such judgments. They seem rather to have a kind of "romantic" view of mental illness if you like. "Sheila? Oh she was afflicted with schizophrenia. Poor girl". "Jeremy? Oh he's a psychopathic killer. The cold hearted bastard".
Can you see the ignorance in such people? It reveals the fact that those who say such things know nothing about mental illness and its characteristics. Some people who are afflicted with devastating illnesses such as schizophrenia or psychopathy are in fact the victims and not the criminals. Yet those who condemn Jeremy often harp on about him being a psychopath. Well if that is so, they should rather be supporting him.
Now lets see the same people on this forum deny that they said he is a psychopath. ;)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 12:47:PM by grahame »

Offline Jane

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The catathymic disorder is interesting but if Sheila suffered from it one wonders why this had not manifested itself at an earlier stage with Colin,and she never had a bad word to say about Ralph(Nevill). I'm also sceptical of Jeremy's claim that there had been a discussion on the Tuesday evening about fostering the twins,firstly because I don't see when there was a time when the whole family was together without the twins and more importantly because Colin and Sheila were granted joint custody(which in practice transpired as Colin doing most of the upbringing) and the twins were the light of Colin's life and he would not have countenanced such an idea and neither would June. I do think Sheila was a schizophrenic who was liable to relapses,but as I say she had never hurt anyone else other than herself. I don't necessarily see the two illnesses as mutually exclusive,but then I think again of what Sheila said about loving her children,and far from her being an adoptee being a disadvantage in this regard it made her want to be a better mother in a way June was not to her,though due to her illness and the side effects of the medication it made that tough.

You speak as if what may have transpired that night is an immediacy. I think, for numerous reasons, the twins welfare was probably a constant source of concern to Nevill and June and was spoken of often, with or without Sheila being present. At the end of the day, it was always more about Sheila than it was about the twins because their welfare and safety was dependent on her stability. I imagine that if Sheila had told her parents that Colin had found someone else and there was no hope of reconciliation with her, they would have viewed it with mixed feelings.

Deep down, whilst he had been able to share some of the responsibility for Sheila, I don't believe they saw a sometimes penniless, bohemian sculptor with dubious morals and questionable religious beliefs as being a suitable guardian, long term, for their grandchildren and may well have viewed his total separation from Sheila as a means of gaining more control of their care in the belief that Sheila wouldn't be able to cope with them indefinitely without support, or even, that at some point, she may yet again, need to be hospitalized. This eventuality may well have already been discussed  and delivered to Sheila that evening as a fait accompli and could have been worded in such a way that the children would not have been deemed to have been disturbed by it. I feel certain, that had Colin contested whatever decision the Bambers came to, regarding his sons, they would have presented a strong enough case for a court to have found in their favour.

You have, on numerous occasions said that Sheila loved her boys and would never do anything to hurt them. I believe this to be true, but THAT Sheila can't be confused with the Sheila she became during an episode. The two personalities may both have inhabitated her mind, but it's highly unlikely that they recognized or were responsible for each other.

I wonder how it may have felt to be Sheila at the start of that visit. The estranged husband, who may have shielded her from the worst aspects of her parents control, has told her of his new love. There will be no reconciliation. Does she find herself faced with being in a situation in which she and her boys are trapped. She couldn't have been unaware that the freedoms they enjoyed in London would be severely restricted if they were forced to move back to the farm but she may have been aware that she couldn't manage without support.I feel it would be reasonable to assume that she felt hopeless.

Offline maggie

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What I find amazing is that those who have sympathy for Sheila and her illness say that Jeremy is a psychopathic killer. Yet believing him to be so afflicted with such an illness show little sympathy with him if he is so afflicted. This kind of behaviour really does show a rather ignorant opinion within those who make such judgments. They seem rather to have a kind of "romantic" view of mental illness if you like. "Sheila? Oh she was afflicted with schizophrenia. Poor girl". "Jeremy? Oh he's a psychopathic killer. The cold hearted bastard".
Can you see the ignorance in such people? It reveals the fact that those who say such things know nothing about mental illness and its characteristics. Some people who are afflicted with devastating illnesses such as schizophrenia or psychopathy are in fact the victims and not the criminals. Yet those who condemn Jeremy often harp on about him being a psychopath. Well if that is so, they should rather be supporting him.
Now lets see the same people on this forum deny that they said he is a psychopath. ;)
It's really a huge question Grahame in my opinion as to what mental illness really is and the deviations in some peoples brains, we have psychopaths and we have paedophiles....true paedophiles have a brain deviation as well.  What is a society willing to accept as an illness and what is seen as wickedness.....it's a delicate area...if I say any more there's every possibiity of a brick throuh my window

Offline grahameb

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You speak as if what may have transpired that night is an immediacy. I think, for numerous reasons, the twins welfare was probably a constant source of concern to Nevill and June and was spoken of often, with or without Sheila being present. At the end of the day, it was always more about Sheila than it was about the twins because their welfare and safety was dependent on her stability. I imagine that if Sheila had told her parents that Colin had found someone else and there was no hope of reconciliation with her, they would have viewed it with mixed feelings.

Deep down, whilst he had been able to share some of the responsibility for Sheila, I don't believe they saw a sometimes penniless, bohemian sculptor with dubious morals and questionable religious beliefs as being a suitable guardian, long term, for their grandchildren and may well have viewed his total separation from Sheila as a means of gaining more control of their care in the belief that Sheila wouldn't be able to cope with them indefinitely without support, or even, that at some point, she may yet again, need to be hospitalized. This eventuality may well have already been discussed  and delivered to Sheila that evening as a fait accompli and could have been worded in such a way that the children would not have been deemed to have been disturbed by it. I feel certain, that had Colin contested whatever decision the Bambers came to, regarding his sons, they would have presented a strong enough case for a court to have found in their favour.

You have, on numerous occasions said that Sheila loved her boys and would never do anything to hurt them. I believe this to be true, but THAT Sheila can't be confused with the Sheila she became during an episode. The two personalities may both have inhabitated her mind, but it's highly unlikely that they recognized or were responsible for each other.

I wonder how it may have felt to be Sheila at the start of that visit. The estranged husband, who may have shielded her from the worst aspects of her parents control, has told her of his new love. There will be no reconciliation. Does she find herself faced with being in a situation in which she and her boys are trapped. She couldn't have been unaware that the freedoms they enjoyed in London would be severely restricted if they were forced to move back to the farm but she may have been aware that she couldn't manage without support.I feel it would be reasonable to assume that she felt hopeless.
I don't think we can begin to imagine the thoughts that were going through Sheila's head after that drive to WHF and conversation with Colin where he informed her that he had found someone else and it began to dawn on her that there was no hope of a recinciliation?
It must have hit her like a brick and Colin tells us that she was very silent and didn't speak another word during that long drive to WHF. This could not have been known or manufactured by Jeremy and he could not have been responsible for Sheila's actions that night.

Offline grahameb

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It's really a huge question Grahame in my opinion as to what mental illness really is and the deviations in some peoples brains, we have psychopaths and we have paedophiles....true paedophiles have a brain deviation as well.  What is a society willing to accept as an illness and what is seen as wickedness.....it's a delicate area...if I say any more there's every possibiity of a brick throuh my window
Yes this is what I am getting at. People not only seem to be extremely judgemental, but also very selective in their judgements.

Offline maggie

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I don't think we can begin to imagine the thoughts that were going through Sheila's head after that drive to WHF and conversation with Colin where he informed her that he had found someone else and it began to dawn on her that there was no hope of a recinciliation?
It must have hit her like a brick and Colin tells us that she was very silent and didn't speak another word during that long drive to WHF. This could not have been known or manufactured by Jeremy and he could not have been responsible for Sheila's actions that night.
I wonder if there is a bit of guilt going on with Colin and that he my have had to dismiss the niggling possibilty that in some way he may have lit Sheila's touch paper?  The fact is he can't really be blamed because he would have had no idea that his words could possibly have set off such a reaction and if it hadn't happened then it was going to happen eventually.......interesting thought tho?

Offline Jane

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I wonder if there is a bit of guilt going on with Colin and that he my have had to dismiss the niggling possibilty that in some way he may have lit Sheila's touch paper?  The fact is he can't really be blamed because he would have had no idea that his words could possibly have set off such a reaction and if it hadn't happened then it was going to happen eventually.......interesting thought tho?

Hi Maggie. Answer to first question.......Undoubtedly.IMO
                Answer to second sentence... Absolutely.IMO

Offline maggie

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Hi Maggie. Answer to first question.......Undoubtedly.IMO
                Answer to second sentence... Absolutely.IMO
Thanks April ;D