A third version of events of 7th August 1985

[mertol22]

Well said Mertol

Her events changed from time to time, she become convinced in her own sad time. One cold person if you ask me. One who gladly volunteered to go to identify the bodies. He method was to ask the dead if there was anything she could do....
I will change my stance on jeremy to guilty right now if i thought for one moment i now believed the JM statement, if she had made sizeable donations to worthy causes related to the case or better still refused the cash and donated away in full then jeremy in my eyes would be guilty, however i still think in logic and logic tells me she took the lot for her own use to accept money out of 5 deaths is immoral.

Albeit she went with AE.......Then mirrored her in a performance that convicted an innocent man, just to get her own back on him for cheating on her....not speculation Mertol, but it is well documented that if she couldn't have him, nobody else can....She wasn't daft was she? She made a small fortune...then did a runner....

[maggie]

Thank you Steve, I just lost a long post I sent you.  I will do it again in  the next 24 hours, I'm sure you will wait with baited breath.

[maggie]

Well said Mertol

Her events changed from time to time, she become convinced in her own sad time. One cold person if you ask me. One who gladly volunteered to go to identify the bodies. Her method was to ask the dead if there was anything she could do....How cold is that? Plus she never cried at any funeral...

Albeit she went with AE.......Then mirrored her in a performance that convicted an innocent man, just to get her own back on him for cheating on her....not speculation Mertol, but it is well documented that if she couldn't have him, nobody else can....She wasn't daft was she? She made a small fortune...then did a runner....

Indeed Patti, I think JM is an interesting personality, there are very manipulating people in this world who have motives that the general population do not understand.  It would be interesting to know more about Julie.

[mertol22]

It would not be proper to think jeremy made the mistake of meeting up with JM as i see it but rather fate and a twist of destiny or pure luck/chance it all stems from the diner Sloppy Joes maggie where they met and both worked one eye contact and it starts from there.

[maggie]

It would not be proper to think jeremy made the mistake of meeting up with JM as i see it but rather fate and a twist of destiny or pure luck/chance it all stems from the diner Sloppy Joes maggie where they met and both worked one eye contact and it starts from there.

Well Mertol maybe they both had things the other wanted, that's the way it goes when you're young, a learning process.  It seems to have been a bit of a disaster

[mertol22]

Well Mertol maybe they both had things the other wanted, that's the way it goes when you're young, a learning process.  It seems to have been a bit of a disaster

Very much so maggie for jeremy it may have been good in the early days,i could be wrong JM also may once have been pleasant and loving, a relationship jeremy was happy to be in never once thinking anything else.

[maggie]

Very much so maggie for jeremy it may have been good in the early days,i could be wrong JM also may once have been pleasant and loving, a relationship jeremy was happy to be in never once thinking anything else.

So true Mertol, people usually are in relationships because they each have things to offer, or they have things to take.  I have a feeling that Julie may have been quite a strong personality and that Jeremy liked that.  I don't know more than anybody else but I do just think that maybe that was the way it was....Whatever happened it was a disaster for a lot of people.  night mertol

[Martin]

Thank you maggie for that very intelligent post. I'm afraid my attitude had hardened since I wrote one post on what is primarily a betting site,having come into contact with forum members,ploughed through internet articles,read Andrew Hunter's book draft,and I'm still not reading anything which leads me to the conclusion that Jeremy is innocent. The way of talking of Julie Mugford is very much like a native of Altrincham(I live nearby) and so in my opinion she has not been coached by Stan Jones or anyone else-it's a true reflection of her life with Jeremy for the year leading up to the murders,and it is devastating testimony. If only the Jeremy supporters would spend half as much time attempting to demolish Julie's testimony with hard facts and not suppositions and smears,as they admittedly have done with the silencer evidence then Jeremy might have a chance yet.

As for the mental illness issue,though I am not personally afflicted with schizophrenia or any other medical condition I do have experience of that particular field which I would prefer not to enter into. Suffice it to say for the relevance of this forum I would concede that in extremis it might be possible to envisage a scenario where someone suffering from this illness does cause harm to other people,though they would be unaware of what they were doing at the time, and of course statistically it is proven that such patients are far more a danger to themselves than to others. I would hope that Sheila's mental illness would be discussed in this generic context,rather than some thread here about which I have already complained because of its sensationalist nature.

There's hard evidence that Stan Jones told Julie Mugford and Susan Battersby to lie. All three of them denied that he, Jones, was present when the two women visited the bank manager Mr Dovey to confess to their crime of cheque fraud.

You could, I suppose, suggest that the fact that you can prove they all lied does not prove it was on Jones's orders, or you could, possibly, suggest that it was Dovey who lied when he said that Jones had been there.

Alternatively, you could admit that Jones lied but then say that that does not prove that Jeremy Bamber is innocent.

[Moe Cassani]

Not possible?Rubbish! There only seems to be evidence that Nevill was shot on the stairs and this was possibly the arm shot? His other arm would have been uninjured and therefore not bloody.Also,there is no evidence whatsoever that Nevill had been shot/injured at all at the time he made alleged phone call to JB.

Well I am sorry but that's not true is it? Nevill was shot a total of eight times I believe. The displacement of cartridges in the bedroom (14 in all) surely display this. June was shot seven times, Sheila twice - so where did all the other FIVE cartridges come from and for what purpose?
Nevill was shot five times upstairs and three downstairs. What makes you think otherwise?

[Patti]

Well I am sorry but that's not true is it? Nevill was shot a total of eight times I believe. The displacement of cartridges in the bedroom (14 in all) surely display this. June was shot seven times, Sheila twice - so where did all the other FIVE cartridges come from and for what purpose?
Nevill was shot five times upstairs and three downstairs. What makes you think otherwise?

Some of them where whole bullets. 

[Steve_uk]

It all gets so convoluted on the part of the Jeremy supporters: the Police shot Sheila,Nevill made a telephone call to Jeremy and then made one to the Police under a hail of bullets from Sheila, who shot herself in the kitchen(why?),went upstairs,washed then shot herself again,Stan Jones lied,Julie Mugford lied,Susan Battersby lied,James Richards lied, Ralph told Barbara Wilson he might die in a shooting accident which has to be another lie,Jeremy told David Boutflour he could easily kill his parents(another lie), the farm hand lied,Jeremy inquired when the twins would be arriving at the farm..and since we're posting messages from other sites I think you'd better take another look at the Julie Mugford evidence and discover the real identity of the killer in a similar fashion to the way you discovered mine.http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=284.0

[lookout]

It all gets so convoluted on the part of the Jeremy supporters: the Police shot Sheila,Nevill made a telephone call to Jeremy and then made one to the Police under a hail of bullets from Sheila, who shot herself in the kitchen(why?),went upstairs,washed then shot herself again,Stan Jones lied,Julie Mugford lied,Susan Battersby lied,James Richards lied, Ralph told Barbara Wilson he might die in a shooting accident which has to be another lie,Jeremy told David Boutflour he could easily kill his parents(another lie), the farm hand lied,Jeremy inquired when the twins would be arriving at the farm..and since we're posting messages from other sites I think you'd better take another look at the Julie Mugford evidence and discover the real identity of the killer in a similar fashion to the way you discovered mine.http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=284.0

Steve,,how about reading the schizophrenia and cannabis links that you can google,,,then see for yourself just what their temperament is like and what they're capable of. Men and women alike.
Also,,read up on Sheilas' medication,,its effects and side-effects as well as it being reduced or " forgotten ",,and the harm they do to themselves and others.
It's an illness unlike any other because there are no visual signs,,this is why it's so unpredictable.
My interest in this case is more of a medical one,,,rather than Jeremy,who is innocent,,,and to prove a point .
If Jeremy had been unfortunate enough to have had the same genetic make-up as Sheila had,,then my thoughts might have been totally different.
Sadly,,it's a known fact that quite a high percentage of schizophrenics commit suicide. Which,by the way,,possibly wouldn't have been known back in 1985.

Just another point. Would you happen to know who the £40,000 debt was owed to,,that Ralph was mortified about.? Sheilas' debt for cocaine,presumably,as cannabis wouldn't have been that expensive.
What a cocktail,eh.? Prescription drugs ( which were like time-bombs ) cannabis and cocaine. Oh dear.

[Moe Cassani]

Steve,,how about reading the schizophrenia and cannabis links that you can google,,,then see for yourself just what their temperament is like and what they're capable of. Men and women alike.
Also,,read up on Sheilas' medication,,its effects and side-effects as well as it being reduced or " forgotten ",,and the harm they do to themselves and others.
It's an illness unlike any other because there are no visual signs,,this is why it's so unpredictable.
My interest in this case is more of a medical one,,,rather than Jeremy,who is innocent,,,and to prove a point .
If Jeremy had been unfortunate enough to have had the same genetic make-up as Sheila had,,then my thoughts might have been totally different.
Sadly,,it's a known fact that quite a high percentage of schizophrenics commit suicide. Which,by the way,,possibly wouldn't have been known back in 1985.

Just another point. Would you happen to know who the £40,000 debt was owed to,,that Ralph was mortified about.? Sheilas' debt for cocaine,presumably,as cannabis wouldn't have been that expensive.
What a cocktail,eh.? Prescription drugs ( which were like time-bombs ) cannabis and cocaine. Oh dear.

Yes Sheila suffered from schizophrenia, but you have absolutely no evidence that this made her violent to others much less a killer of four people. It is painfully obvious that you are trying to squeeze an argument out of absolutely nothing. It would appear that you know something that no-one else, including the prosecutor at the trial were aware of. I find it somewhat strange that you have not included Bamber's forray into selling drugs. His request for tranquillisers from Julie Mugford.
Lookout please explain to me what evidence do you have that Sheila actually committed these killings. Forget the window-dressing and the extrapolated, painfully stretched and very tentative points .
I am asking you to show any evidence that shows Sheila Cafell pulled the trigger.
And that invitation goes for ANY poster on this site. Where is the evidence - and please try to be relavant to the question. Thank you all.

[Patti]

Yes Sheila suffered from schizophrenia, but you have absolutely no evidence that this made her violent to others much less a killer of four people. It is painfully obvious that you are trying to squeeze an argument out of absolutely nothing. It would appear that you know something that no-one else, including the prosecutor at the trial were aware of. I find it somewhat strange that you have not included Bamber's forray into selling drugs. His request for tranquillisers from Julie Mugford.
Lookout please explain to me what evidence do you have that Sheila actually committed these killings. Forget the window-dressing and the extrapolated, painfully stretched and very tentative points .
I am asking you to show any evidence that shows Sheila Cafell pulled the trigger.
And that invitation goes for ANY poster on this site. Where is the evidence - and please try to be relavant to the question. Thank you all.

Well, I would think the evidence would have bitten you in the bum...lol

The doors and windows were securely locked...That is a fact, not a made up story. Therefore the killer had to have been someone from inside the house.

There is absolutely no proof to point the finger at JB never had been any. What happened afterwards was that the police gave into pressure. Plus the whole trial was based on evidence that had been invented.  And, guess what! it worked....Would it work now in the same court, with a jury...Absolutely NOT.....

Could, you give me the evidence that proved JB pulled a trigger that night? I guess not, for there isn't any.....Ha! 

[Moe Cassani]

Well, I would think the evidence would have bitten you in the bum...lol

The doors and windows were securely locked...That is a fact, not a made up story. Therefore the killer had to have been someone from inside the house.

There is absolutely no proof to point the finger at JB never had been any. What happened afterwards was that the police gave into pressure. Plus the whole trial was based on what evidence that had been invented.  And, guess what it worked....Would it work now in the same court, with a jury...Absolutely NOT.....

Could, you give me the evidence that proved JB pulled a trigger that night? I guess not, for there isn't any.....Ha! 

Oh contraire Patti,
The catch was clearly a factor. Why are you suggesting otherwise? It is in Bambers statements - he even admits that he can easily get in through this way and had done so on many occasions. Why are you saying otherwise Patti? He even climbed in (witnessed by police) through the exact same window shortly AFTER he was questioned and the window was mentioned. Patti I am surprised that you havent mentioned this at all.
Why would it have to have been someone inside the house? Patti you are trying to make it all inclusive to everyone except Bamber............no dice I am afraid. Can it be that he climbed in through that window and moved the sink tidy that the farm secretary noticed in the following days and the smear on the window? - why have you failed to mention any of this? Why did you not mention that he climbed through the window AFTER the murders and this was witnessed by under cover police officers?