A third version of events of 7th August 1985

[Caroline R]

I have dismissed an outsider being responsible because it is the ubiquitous Jeremy who informs us that Ralph(Nevill) tells us that "Sheila has gone berserk with a gun",therefore limiting in his scenario the suspects to two. This was always a weakness in Jeremy's testimony as he wanted to set himself up with the Police as his alibi. I have deliberated the events of that morning,not what happened in September,and it's quite evident to me that Jeremy entered the property through one of the downstairs windows and exited through another,as he had told Julie he knew how and as he did subsequently to the murders when he thought it had all died down. I also believe that there was no telephone call at all from Ralph(Nevill);there would have to be a contrived scenario for it to have happened,irrespective of the Police at Witham and at Chelmsford Police stations denying they ever spoke to Nevill personally.

Really Steve? Isn't this your blog where you errr "examine the evidence"? Have you moved from your hit man theory since - when was it? Oh yes, July 12th! You write in an extremely patronising fashion as though you and only you have the intelligence to enlighten us all and yet your blog is full of holes, the evidence you claim to be of the highest calibre, is nothing that we haven't heard before and some of your so called 'facts' are just plain iffy. See what other people think?

http://www.betnod.com/threads/the-jeremy-bamber-case-still-beyond-reasonable-doubt.1338/

[Steve_uk]

Steve have you got me on ignore, or am I too good for you...lol 

Patti I have nobody on ignore and I do not rule out conspiracy theories,just I have examined them and I'm still trying to envisage a scenario where Ralph(Nevill)makes a telephone call. As for Mike's photos,couldn't Jeremy have shot Sheila twice and photographs taken then before her face got bloodied with CPR attempts,and further photographs taken afterwards? Haven't the Police admitted that they moved the rifle,but why is this somehow a proof of Jeremy's innocence?

[Patti]

Patti,
The police suspected Bamber and in doing so they had to reason how he got to and from the farm house. It dawned on Stan Jones when he saw a cycle parked at the back of his house, that on questioning had only appeared just a few weeks before the killings. So do you think it was unreasonable of the police to suspect this in a major murder case? I certainly dont.

That is incorrect. The police thought it was a murder/suicide for weeks. They never suspected Bamber, till the extended family family supplied pressure.

I will tell you this....JM and the extended family mirrored each other.....does that not tell you any thing...?

 

[Roch]

Haven't the Police admitted that they moved the rifle,but why is this somehow a proof of Jeremy's innocence?

No, only her hand.  They have denied moving anything else.

[maggie]

Mertol whether you believe Jeremy received a call from his father or not the point was the suspects were limited to two by that telephone call. Any other scenario is getting remarkably contrived,as indeed the Jeremy supporters have found over the past twenty seven years:for example one has heard it might not have been "Sheila has gone berserk with the gun" but "She has gone berserk with the gun" suggesting that somehow June was an Annie Oakley aspirant with Ralph playing the part of General Custer. I can understand why all these theories have been explored but Jeremy was condemned through his own mouth,whilst June was shot first in bed. The prosecution outlined its version of events at the trial and every subsequent plaint by whatever means at that verdict has been unsuccessful.

Hi Steve, Do you really not spend much time thinking about real life. If Mike and Jeremy mulled over the what ifs of this case and questioned what Jeremy heard when he was woken from a deep sleep at 3.00 am ish that August night I would imagine that was quite natural. 

I am curious as to whether you have some connection to this crime.  You are vey understanding towards mental illness in general and to Sheila's mental illness in particular which is admirable but by the same token you give Jeremy no mercy.  I hope you understand that the people who believe Jeremy innocent do not therefore see Sheila as guilty of a crime.  You will find that these people understand the tragedy of mental illness and that if Sheila did shoot and kill her family she was in a state of despair and out of control.

[mertol22]

No, only her hand.  They have denied moving anything else.

Claire Powells book offers a clue.

[Steve_uk]

Really Steve? Isn't this your blog where you errr "examine the evidence"? Have you moved from your hit man theory since - when was it? Oh yes, July 12th! You write in an extremely patronising fashion as though you and only you have the intelligence to enlighten us all and yet your blog is full of holes, the evidence you claim to be of the highest calibre, is nothing that we haven't heard before and some of your so called 'facts' are just plain iffy. See what other people think?

http://www.betnod.com/threads/the-jeremy-bamber-case-still-beyond-reasonable-doubt.1338/

Well Caroline I have nothing to hide which is why I have stuck with the same name for the different site. It is now the 5th August and yes I have learnt more about the case from internet searches since then,but to use your words back at you your blog is full of holes because you fail to understand that whether Jeremy committed the murders himself or hired a hitman it still makes Jeremy guilty.

[Caroline R]

Well Caroline I have nothing to hide which is why I have stuck with the same name for the same site. It is now the 5th August and yes I have learnt more about the case from internet searches since then,but to use your words back at you your blog is full of holes because you fail to understand that whether Jeremy committed the murders himself or hired a hitman it still makes Jeremy guilty.

It seems you're failing to understand - I don't believe that he did commit the murders!

[mertol22]

The evidence made jeremy guilty and its that very evidence responsible for this very forum to interact.

[Caroline R]

The evidence made jeremy guilty and its that very evidence responsible for this very forum to interact.

Well said Mertol!

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve, Do you really not spend much time thinking about real life. If Mike and Jeremy mulled over the what ifs of this case and questioned what Jeremy heard when he was woken from a deep sleep at 3.00 am ish that August night I would imagine that was quite natural. 

I am curious as to whether you have some connection to this crime.  You are vey understanding towards mental illness in general and to Sheila's mental illness in particular which is admirable but by the same token you give Jeremy no mercy.  I hope you understand that the people who believe Jeremy innocent do not therefore see Sheila as guilty of a crime.  You will find that these people understand the tragedy of mental illness and that if Sheila did shoot and kill her family she was in a state of despair and out of control.

Thank you maggie for that very intelligent post. I'm afraid my attitude had hardened since I wrote one post on what is primarily a betting site,having come into contact with forum members,ploughed through internet articles,read Andrew Hunter's book draft,and I'm still not reading anything which leads me to the conclusion that Jeremy is innocent. The way of talking of Julie Mugford is very much like a native of Altrincham(I live nearby) and so in my opinion she has not been coached by Stan Jones or anyone else-it's a true reflection of her life with Jeremy for the year leading up to the murders,and it is devastating testimony. If only the Jeremy supporters would spend half as much time attempting to demolish Julie's testimony with hard facts and not suppositions and smears,as they admittedly have done with the silencer evidence then Jeremy might have a chance yet.

As for the mental illness issue,though I am not personally afflicted with schizophrenia or any other medical condition I do have experience of that particular field which I would prefer not to enter into. Suffice it to say for the relevance of this forum I would concede that in extremis it might be possible to envisage a scenario where someone suffering from this illness does cause harm to other people,though they would be unaware of what they were doing at the time, and of course statistically it is proven that such patients are far more a danger to themselves than to others. I would hope that Sheila's mental illness would be discussed in this generic context,rather than some thread here about which I have already complained because of its sensationalist nature.

[mertol22]

JM  is a issue and a very serious one for multiple reasons, are you expecting me to be fine with what she said in her statement with no evidence to fortify it? i said this a while back and its still stands good now if JM had put pen to paper and logged in a jotter or diary , days and dates jeremy had said things that i might believe, im quite happy to set aside her being dumped that is a social issue but my point still stands, no court in this land today would accept such nonesense with no additional proof but they did back then after 30 attempts to get her version right.

[Steve_uk]

The term beserk needs to be clarified it could mean anything.

Mertol that's a good point;I had assumed that in this scenario either Sheila had already discharged bullets from the rifle or was threatening those in close proximity with a threat to shoot. However since I have dismissed as almost impossible a scenario where Ralph(Nevill) telephones his son before the Police,I have dismissed these words and put them in the vague context box along with all Jeremy's other statements-the statements of a man who is being deliberately obfuscating and vague,whereas an innocent man would want to talk until the cows came home..

[mertol22]

Jeremy has more or less stuck to his version of events that night ever since his mind sounds clear and concise to me but thats only my view, look beserk in a dictionary it has several answers.

[Patti]

JM  is a issue and a very serious one for multiple reasons, are you expecting me to be fine with what she said in her statement with no evidence to fortify it? i said this a while back and its still stands good now if JM had put pen to paper and logged in a jotter or diary , days and dates jeremy had said things that i might believe, im quite happy to set aside her being dumped that is a social issue but my point still stands, no court in this land today would accept such nonesense with no additional proof but they did back then after 30 attempts to get her version right.

Well said Mertol

Her events changed from time to time, she become convinced in her own sad time. One cold person if you ask me. One who gladly volunteered to go to identify the bodies. Her method was to ask the dead if there was anything she could do....How cold is that? Plus she never cried at any funeral...

Albeit she went with AE.......Then mirrored her in a performance that convicted an innocent man, just to get her own back on him for cheating on her....not speculation Mertol, but it is well documented that if she couldn't have him, nobody else can....She wasn't daft was she? She made a small fortune...then did a runner....