Lies told about state of blood (SC) - easily disproved...

[lookout]

If I had a hat I'd be taking it off to you now for posting the most contrived, speculative and entirely baseless theory I've seen in a long time. I would say ever, but there is some stiff competition.

C'mon,Bridget. Let's see you and your cohorts give us your,,koff,,reliable version of events.

Surely you've got to give Mike some credit for his outstanding detective work,,,some of which is glaringly obvious that it's been a well cobbled job done by supposedly trained professionals.

[Bridget]

C'mon,Bridget. Let's see you and your cohorts give us your,,koff,,reliable version of events.

Surely you've got to give Mike some credit for his outstanding detective work,,,some of which is glaringly obvious that it's been a well cobbled job done by supposedly trained professionals.

I'll give him credit for his imagination.

[mike tesko]

You can scoff all you want to, but the fact of the matter is that even now, despite some 27 years or so having elapsed there is still no schedule relating to the sequence of events in which all 581 photographs which are contained in the "senior investigating officers album" were taken?

We have a schedule for all the 223 photographs taken in the so called (and wrongly named) "MASTER COPY ALBUM", and a corresponding schedule which shows the 50 photographs contained in the "COURT ALBUM", that were taken from the "MASTER COPY ALBUM", but we do not have a schedule for the sequence of events relating to the taking of the 581 pictures contained in the "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM". Now in order to make any sense of the contents of the schedule for the " MASTER COPY ALBUM" (223)  and the "COURT ALBUM" (50), you need do you not, a full schedule from the "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM (581), so that you can work out the exact order that photographs contained in the "MASTER COPY ALBUM" were taken, and in what order by reference to the SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM (581) the 50 photographs which formed the "COURT ALBUM" were taken in, do you not agree?

Based on the contents of the "COURT ALBUM" (50), it appears on the face of its contents that the rifle was not photographed atop Sheila's body (27 and 32) until after PC Bird photographed the rifle against the bedroom window at 23 - this is / was the evidence that the jury were being shown, and upon which they had to make their judgement, and arrive at a verdict upon. In this regard they were deceived, do you not agree? they were deceived because the content of the "COURT ALBUM (50) was a deception, its contents did not reflect the exact order that the photographs had been, or were taken in? But how could the jury know this / that, if they did not have access to the schedule for the "MASTER COPY ALBUM" (223), or as the case may be, access to a copy of a schedule for the "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM" (581)?

[mike tesko]

Based on the contents of the "COURT ALBUM" (50), it appears on the face of its contents that the rifle was not photographed atop Sheila's body (27 and 32) until after PC Bird photographed the rifle against the bedroom window at 23 - this is / was the evidence that the jury were being shown, and upon which they had to make their judgement, and arrive at a verdict upon. In this regard they were deceived, do you not agree? they were deceived because the content of the "COURT ALBUM (50) was a deception, its contents did not reflect the exact order that the photographs had been, or were taken in? But how could the jury know this / that, if they did not have access to the schedule for the "MASTER COPY ALBUM" (223), or as the case may be, access to a copy of a schedule for the "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM" (581)?

Lets get the facts right...

At the time of Jeremy Bambers trial in October 1986, there was no schedule exhibited which illustrated the sequence of events that all 223 photographs contained in the wrongly named "MASTER COPY ALBUM", nor any corresponding schedule exhibited showing which of the 50 "COURT ALBUM" photographs, were taken in, by reference tio the aforementioned "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM" (581)?

[Bridget]

Based on the contents of the "COURT ALBUM" (50), it appears on the face of its contents that the rifle was not photographed atop Sheila's body (27 and 32) until after PC Bird photographed the rifle against the bedroom window at 23 - this is / was the evidence that the jury were being shown, and which they had to make their judgement, and arrive at a verdict upon. In this regard they were deceived, do you niot agree? they were deceived because the content of the "COURT ALBUM (50) was a deception, its contents did not reflect the exact order that the photographs had been, or were taken in? But how could the jury know this / that, if they did not have access to the schedule for the "MASTER COPY ALBUM" (223), or as the case may be, access to a copy of a schedule for the "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM" (581)?

Unless you have a transcript of Bird's evidence it is impossible to say what the jury were told with regards the order of the photographs. Given that the photo of the rifle in the window is numbered 23, your claim that photo 26 shows Sheila without the rifle, and then 27 and 32 show her with it, without further explanation the jury will have assumed that the rifle was indeed taken off of her body and then returned to it prior to photos 27 and 32 being taken. So no disadvantage to Jeremy there then.

[mike tesko]

Lets get the facts right...

At the time of Jeremy Bambers trial in October 1986, there was no schedule exhibited which illustrated the sequence of events that all 223 photographs contained in the wrongly named "MASTER COPY ALBUM", nor any corresponding schedule exhibited showing which of the 50 "COURT ALBUM" photographs, were taken in, by reference tio the aforementioned "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM" (581)?

Since then of course, in 1991 COLP produced evidence of a schedule which purports to show the sequence of events relating to the taking of the 50 "COURT ALBUM" photographs, when compared against the content of the so called (wrongly named) "MASTER COPY ALBUM" (223)...

Too late for the jury to get any benefit from its contents, "too late by five years", I am afraid...

[mike tesko]

Unless you have a transcript of Bird's evidence it is impossible to say what the jury were told with regards the order of the photographs. Given that the photo of the rifle in the window is numbered 23, your claim that photo 26 shows Sheila without the rifle, and then 27 and 32 show her with it, without further explanation the jury will have assumed that the rifle was indeed taken off of her body and then returned to it prior to photos 27 and 32 being taken. So no disadvantage to Jeremy there then.

AAh...

Wrong again - jury were given an untruthful explanation by PC Bird, an untruthful explanation he was able to give because he knew that he had created a false schedule purporting to relate to a "MASTER COPY ALBUM", which contained all the photographs taken in connection with this investigation (223)...

Good old PC Bird, the lying bastard...

Contents of the "COURT ALBUM" (50) and contents of the "MASTER COPY ALBUM" (223) were both out of sequence when compared to the actual sequence of events relating to when each of the 581 pictures were / had been taken relating to the " SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM" - in other words a deception introduced by PC Bird, that /which was further compounded by another deception, because the existence of the actual contents of the "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM" (581) was deliberately and purposefully withheld, and not mentioned,  so that what took place at the scene involving how Sheila Caffell came to die, (she was shot by a police officer under the chin) could not possibly be discovered by anyone,  before the conclusion of trial proceedings...

[mike tesko]

AAh...

Wrong again - jury were given an untruthful explanation by PC Bird, an untruthful explanation he was able to give because he knew that he had created a false schedule purporting to relate to a "MASTER COPY ALBUM", which contained all the photographs taken in connection with this investigation (223)...

Good old PC Bird, the lying bastard...

Contents of the "COURT ALBUM" (50) and contents of the "MASTER COPY ALBUM" (223) were both out of sequence when compared to the actual sequence of events relating to when each of the 581 pictures were / had been taken relating to the " SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM" - in other words a deception introduced by PC Bird, that /which was further compounded by another deception, because the existence of the actual contents of the "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM" (581) was deliberately and purposefully withheld, and not mentioned,  so that what took place at the scene involving how Sheila Caffell came to die, (she was shot by a police officer under the chin) could not possibly be discovered by anyone,  before the conclusion of trial proceedings...

We are some 27 years or so down the road, and still Essex police, refuse to produce such a schedule, which relates to the sequence of events regarding the taking or reproduction of enlargements of the 581 pictures that form part and parcel of the "SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM"...

Wonder what they are scared of?

[Bridget]

Either you have a transcript of Bird's evidence or you don't. If you don't you can't possibly know what he said. If you do, post it.

[mike tesko]

Either you have a transcript of Bird's evidence or you don't. If you don't you can't possibly know what he said. If you do, post it.

I will post what I want, when I want - I don't tell you or anybody what to post, or when to post, you should learn to be more patient...

In the meantime, here are extracts of the so called schedule which PC Bird produced for the COLP investigation (1991), which shows the date when each of the 50 "COURT ALBUM" photographs were taken:-



"To be borne in mind, is that the jury nor Jeremy and his legal team, or the court itself, did not receive the benefit of this, at the time of the trial in October 1986"...

[Roch]

Feel free to continue this particular wild goose chase then, it's no skin off my nose.

There is no point in arguing with a member who takes up an absurd immovable position on an aspect of the case.  Being obdurate in this way might sometimes work to your advantage but I can assure you, it hasn't worked for you yesterday or today.  Even Velma from Scooby Doo could work this one out.  It's got nowt to do with spatial awareness...

[Bridget]

There is no point in arguing with a member who takes up an absurd immovable position on an aspect of the case.  Being obdurate in this way might sometimes work to your advantage but I can assure you, it hasn't worked for you yesterday or today.  Even Velma from Scooby Doo could work this one out.  It's got nowt to do with spatial awareness...

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[tyler]

Photograph 26,a view of Sheila and June in the main bedroom.Would a photograph be able to take in the both of their bodies?They were quite far apart (opposite ends of the room).

[Steve_uk]

You have no evidence that Sheila was shot by the Police, only that either the gun was moved or Sheila's hand was moved,you have no evidence that anyone entering the premises of White House Farm that morning heard a shot,it was DCI Taff Jones who as overall head of the investigation declared the crime to be four murders and a suicide and the lower ranks who were dissatisfied with that theory,there is no evidence that Sheila had gone berserk with a gun because no Police officer recollects talking exclusively to Ralph(Nevill) Bamber. There is no evidence of gun oil on Sheila's nightdress or evidence that she discharged a rifle 25 times,neither is there evidence of any physical exertion or sweat on her face from someone who had been in a fierce struggle with Nevill.

To counter this we have Jeremy's assertions to Julie that he must have a "mental problem" because he had no feelings at all towards the deceased,his assertion that Nevill put up a stronger struggle than expected as he fought for his life and in this fight a glove came off in the exchange.We have Julie telling us how Jeremy knew a way into the property avoiding the main thoroughfares through one of the downstairs windows,which he may well have left open before he left for the night on August 6.

[susan]

steve  I think if anyone had mental problems it was Julie.  To identify the little twins and show no emotion only ask questions which I will not post up then saying she needed a ciggy. To share a bed with Jeremy  a normal person would have the images of the little twins all the time.  That is not normal behaviour I know you said love is blind but come on now steve not that blind.  Also if she knew he was going to commit the murders she could have stopped it.  Did she not wonder if she was going to be next. My impression of Julie is a cold calculating young woman who would have easily lead Jeremy astray and she had her eyes on the £'s sign.