Author Topic: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...  (Read 50954 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #390 on: July 30, 2012, 10:07:PM »
They did manage to move her arm without moving the bible. 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 10:09:PM by Roch »

-Harters-

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #391 on: July 30, 2012, 10:15:PM »
Fletcher examines PV2 on the document it says Ralph Bamber's Left arm.  :)

Yes but No.7 was in his left arm, all be it via his shoulder, so what links PV/2 to an exit wound, am I being blind?

Surely if there are two wounds in the left arm/shoulder, one exited and one didn't, then the one bullet found must be the one that didn't exit, right?

(Pssst I am happily married, so you are quite safe  ;) )

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #392 on: July 30, 2012, 10:30:PM »
Patti you are not boring us at all..as I said in a previous post the devil may be in the detail in this case and though I have switched off on occasion in this section it might just be what this case needs for everyone's dogged persistence to be rewarded. Roch I don't know who starryian is..

-Harters-

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #393 on: July 31, 2012, 12:17:AM »
Patti, this should clear things up for you I think.

PV/2 was number 7 on the diagram and not number 8, number 8 was not recovered.

There is therefore nothing wrong with any of this, just our temporary lack of understanding.  :)


-Harters-

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #394 on: July 31, 2012, 12:46:AM »
Also Patti, just to confirm that I'm not completely losing my marbles (just one or two maybe), here is where I got the suggestion that bullet 8 was in Ralphs clothing, not quite as I thought, but this is what I was thinking of.


« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 07:07:AM by -The Jam- »

Offline Patti

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #395 on: July 31, 2012, 07:25:AM »
Morning Hartley

Thank you for posting the above. Please look back at post 320 on this thread from me and click on the link. Fletcher does say PV2 was from the left arm and not the shoulder. This, is what caused the confusion. The way he describes the bullet as being intact on one side and the other side having hit a curved surface. He doesn't say the bullet was flattened.  Yet in the documents you have posted, it is clear that PV2 is from the shoulder and not the left arm and the bullet weight was 2.4 something ...It's a mistake by Fletcher. obviously, but one that has been found through research from both sides of the fence. Thank you.  I was inclined to go with the theory it could be from the shoulder, but we had to prove it and I think that has been done...Well done.

How he got it wrong...mind boggles.  God knows where the flattened bullet ended up.

That was my first check...I intend checking them all out...lolol Yes, I'm mad.  :) :) :) :)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 07:43:AM by Patti »

-Harters-

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #396 on: July 31, 2012, 07:45:AM »
Morning Hartley

Thank you for posting the above. Please look back at post 320 on this thread from me and click on the link. Fletcher does say PV2 was from the left arm and not the shoulder. This, is what caused the confusion. The way he describes the bullet as being intact on one side and the other side having hit a curved surface. He doesn't say the bullet was flattened.  Yet in the documents you have posted, it is clear that PV2 is from the shoulder and not the left arm and the bullet weight was 2.4 something ...It's a mistake by Fletcher. obviously, but one that has been found through research from both sides of the fence. Thank you.  I was inclined to go with the theory it could be from the shoulder, but we had to prove it and I think that has been done...Well done.

How he got it wrong...mind boggles.  God knows where the flattened bullet was listed.

That was my first check...I intend checking them all out...lolol Yes, I'm mad.  :) :) :) :)

I think the bullet was in his arm, even if it entered high up on or near the shoulder, so I don't think the description is necessarily incorrect.

Carry on with the checking, I'll assist where I can. It's good that you look at things for yourself instead of simply repeating accusations made by others (which is all too common on both sides). Very refreshing.  :)

Offline Patti

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #397 on: July 31, 2012, 08:04:AM »
The ballistic experts, Malcom Fletcher, and D. Taylor, did not differentiate the type of .22 bullets to that / this extent -  see general examination records for confirmation of this...

Please visit:-

(1) - http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2506.0.html

Offline Patti

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #398 on: July 31, 2012, 08:23:AM »
I think the bullet was in his arm, even if it entered high up on or near the shoulder, so I don't think the description is necessarily incorrect.

Carry on with the checking, I'll assist where I can. It's good that you look at things for yourself instead of simply repeating accusations made by others (which is all too common on both sides). Very refreshing.  :)

Yes, Fletcher put arm and should have put shoulder. Vanezes put shoulder. The weight was the same on all the documents. It goes to show that mistakes can be made.  I also think the shoulder shot was done from the landing as NB went downstairs...hence the shell case on the landing. I could be wrong, can't prove it, but it is likely.

Did you see what I thought about the diagram of double head shot wounds. 1 and 2  3 and 4 5 and 6.
Again it is a theory, that the rifle could have consecutively fired two bullets.

Right now I will check out PV3....lol  :) :) :)

-Harters-

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #399 on: July 31, 2012, 08:59:AM »
Yes, Fletcher put arm and should have put shoulder. Vanezes put shoulder. The weight was the same on all the documents. It goes to show that mistakes can be made.  I also think the shoulder shot was done from the landing as NB went downstairs...hence the shell case on the landing. I could be wrong, can't prove it, but it is likely.

Did you see what I thought about the diagram of double head shot wounds. 1 and 2  3 and 4 5 and 6.
Again it is a theory, that the rifle could have consecutively fired two bullets.

Right now I will check out PV3....lol  :) :) :)

Yes, I've suggested that before about the shot on the stairs, mainly because is from above and behind Ralph, plus the locations of shell cases found at the top of the stairs. I have a slight problem though that the stairs wind round to the right, so the wound seems it should be on his right arm/shoulder rather than his left, but maybe I'm over complicating things.

With the pairs of shots, I understand that it can be a characteristic of a semi-auto rifle for shots to be grouped together in that way, it would indicate that Ralph could have been immobile at the time. I don't believe this is the same as the shots to Sheila, her shots are more spaced out and at different angles. The shots to the children are similar to the grouped shots to Ralph, at least in my laymans opinion.

Bring on PV/3  :)

Offline Patti

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #400 on: July 31, 2012, 09:30:AM »
I'm off the Barton Upon Humber to nature reserve. I must be mad, it is throwing it down with rain...But I might get to see the elusive Bittern...Will check PV3 out when I get back... :) :) :)

Offline lookout

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #401 on: July 31, 2012, 09:47:AM »
I'm off the Barton Upon Humber to nature reserve. I must be mad, it is throwing it down with rain...But I might get to see the elusive Bittern...Will check PV3 out when I get back... :) :) :)

Morning Patti.Enjoy your day. ( in your wellies and mac )

Offline Patti

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #402 on: July 31, 2012, 06:35:PM »
Morning Patti.Enjoy your day. ( in your wellies and mac )

Hi Lookout not long since back. Weather was kind and no rain, in fact it was warm and the sun came out
at one point. Didn't see much...Saw a tree sparrow, which are rare, but that was in...Loads of black headed gulls...no waders...

Must book that train ticket....had trouble getting on BT....could get on AOL but I am with Talk Talk....lol I know..it's confusing... :) :) :) :)

Offline Patti

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #403 on: September 15, 2012, 03:48:PM »
Bump

Offline Patti

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Re: Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...
« Reply #404 on: October 11, 2012, 05:10:PM »
Bump