Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...

[Patti]

He certainly wasn't describing a flattened bullet, like Vanezes did for PV2. Not that he said he took a bullet from the arm of course..Very odd. 

[Steve_uk]

Dr Martin Ismail said he thought Sheila's legs had been pulled due to the position of her nightdress which had been rucked up at the rear. Could this have been Jeremy after the second shot to test whether or not she were dead. It doesn't look clear from the photograph that Sheila is at all dead. If Sheila shot herself with the bolt rifle then how does it explain the other shots with the .22 anschutz and why would she change weapon when there's a whole lot of anschutz bullets scattered on the kitchen worktop? And why attempt suicide in the kitchen anyway..

[mike tesko]

Dr Martin Ismail said he thought Sheila's legs had been pulled due to the position of her nightdress which had been rucked up at the rear. Could this have been Jeremy after the second shot to test whether or not she were dead. It doesn't look clear from the photograph that Sheila is at all dead. If Sheila shot herself with the bolt rifle then how does it explain the other shots with the .22 anschutz and why would she change weapon when there's a whole lot of anschutz bullets scattered on the kitchen worktop? And why attempt suicide in the kitchen anyway..

Unfortunately, Dr Ismail cannot say who pulled Sheila's legs, as you describe - it could just as easily have been the police who did this during the stage managing process...

It could not have been Jeremy who shot Sheila for the  second time, she didn't get shot with the second bullet (PV/19) until after police entered premises, and Jeremy was not with them inside premises...

[Steve_uk]

Unfortunately, Dr Ismail cannot say who pulled Sheila's legs, as you describe - it could just as easily have been the police who did this during the stage managing process...

If we agree that Sheila's legs were pulled either after the first or second shot is it still feasible that both shots could have occurred in the bedroom. And please don't tell me that Police stage managed the Bible..that has all the hallmarks of Jeremy.

[Patti]

If we agree that Sheila's legs were pulled either after the first or second shot is it still feasible that both shots could have occurred in the bedroom. And please don't tell me that Police stage managed the Bible..that has all the hallmarks of Jeremy.

Hi Steve. Can you prove it has the hallmark of Jeremy?

Yes, I agree her nightie is up at the back...it happens to all us ladies at some point.

Looking at the picture it is so obvious what happened, but being as I am so kind, I will let you work it out....lol 

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve. Can you prove it has the hallmark of Jeremy?

Yes, I agree her nightie is up at the back...it happens to all us ladies at some point.

Looking at the picture it is so obvious what happened, but being as I am so kind, I will let you work it out....lol 

Well do spill the beans and trawling through two days of fragmented bullet evidence when I am none the wiser will have made it worthwhile. Forensics made it clear that in their opinion the Bible had been placed there after death..

[mike tesko]

If we agree that Sheila's legs were pulled either after the first or second shot is it still feasible that both shots could have occurred in the bedroom. And please don't tell me that Police stage managed the Bible..that has all the hallmarks of Jeremy.

You can believe what you like about anything, but if you want to know who put the bible on Sheila's arm, whilst her body was moved to the floor you need to see what PS Adams told COLP? You also need to consider what a police officer told Ann Eaton on the morning of the shootings about Sheila's body being found on the bed with a bible on her chest...  How the hell could Jeremy be responsible for where police put the bible during the stage managing of Sheila's body on the floor from the bed?

[Patti]

Actually the more I look at it, then the more it appears to read as if the bullet went through Ralphs arm, exited and then entered his abdomen. 

What do you think? No 8 on the diagram below.

I've noticed something....on the diagram...can anyone else see it?

[mike tesko]

I've noticed something....on the diagram...can anyone else see it?

Ralph doesn't have an exit wound on the back of one arm in the diagram?

[Patti]

Ralph doesn't have an exit wound on the back of one arm in the diagram?

No Mike, because the the bullet exited at the front of his arm....Look closely...what do you see.  I'm not tricking you...

[Roch]

And please don't tell me that Police stage managed the Bible..that has all the hallmarks of Jeremy.

So the police manage to move the rifle up and down her body, move her hand to photograph a blood stain, move her head enough for welled blood to begin exiting her fatal wound from when Bamber shot her.... but don't manage to knock a precariously placed bible over her arm... and this stays in place as it was found?

BTW,

you've not answered a single post of mine since I suggested you were starryian, so you've probably got me on ignore. 

[mike tesko]

No Mike, because the the bullet exited at the front of his arm....Look closely...what do you see.  I'm not tricking you...

If bullet exited front or back of arm, how did Venezis recover bullet PV/2 from Ralphs left arm?

Somebody has messed up bad with the ballistics...

[Patti]

If bullet exited front or back of arm, how did Venezis recover bullet PV/2 from Ralphs left arm?

Somebody has messed up bad with the ballistics...

Hi Mike

He couldn't have got it from his arm, for it was an exit wound. Yet Fletcher examines it and says one side of the bullet is intact, then Vanezes says it was flattened....someone has got it very wrong...

Going back to the diagram...it's rings of double bullets wounds....1 and 2   3 and 4   5 and 6.....Either you are a very good shot to get bullets going side by side of each other, or the rifle has a malfunction and shoots two bullets twice.....and that could be why Sheila was shot twice....Just a theory of course, but one worth looking at.. What do you think?

[mike tesko]

Hi Mike

He couldn't have got it from his arm, for it was an exit wound. Yet Fletcher examines it and says one side of the bullet is intact, then Vanezes says it was flattened....someone has got it very wrong...

Going back to the diagram...it's rings of double bullets wounds....1 and 2   3 and 4   5 and 6.....Either you are a very good shot to get bullets going side by side of each other, or the rifle has a malfunction and shoots two bullets twice.....and that could be why Sheila was shot twice....Just a theory of course, but one worth looking at.. What do you think?

Why would the pathologist give a false account about where he got bullet PV/2 from Ralphs left arm...

[Patti]

Why would the pathologist give a false account about where he got bullet PV/2 from Ralphs left arm...

I don't know Mike. He couldn't have got it from Nevill's left arm, for it exited out...He says the track of the bullet went to his chest. His chest was raidgraphed and there was fragments of the bullet, but they could not be retrieved. He does not say he got the bullet from anywhere. Yet Fletcher says he examined the bullet from Nevill's left arm which was PV2....he couldn't have, because there was no bullet in the arm.  A bit of a mix up I think....Plus the bullet Fletcher examines is not a flattened bullet. But according to Vanezes it is....it's complicated...

I think the bullet Fletcher examines is from Nevill's shoulder...and Vanezes cocks it up at the lab and sends it as the bullet from the arm and not the shoulder....

Sorry, this is so boring....I hope I'm not putting people off....