Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...

[Patti]

A modern day Eley hollow point Xtra and Xtra Plus weighs 2.43g and 2.59g respectively.

I have searched for a lighter round before, but other than on websites associated with this case I've never seen reference to one, perhaps manufacturing spec has changed over the years. 

That would be a high velocity solid bullet not a hollow one. Did they have two different ones?

High velocity solid 2.59
High velocity hollow 2.27

Which one is correct? 

[-Harters-]

That would be a high velocity solid bullet not a hollow one. Did they have two different ones?

High velocity solid 2.59
High velocity hollow 2.27

Which one is correct? 

Nope, hollow point and sub-sonic, I think anyway. 

Xtra Plus: http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=55

Xtra: http://www.championshooters.com/Eley3.html

[Patti]

The bullets were found in the bottom pillow on the right hand side of the bed. JB had one exit wound just below the neck towards the right shoulder.  One of the bullets could have come from that wound, but what about the other one?

Fletcher couldn't determine if either bullet had come from wounds, but did say that on one of the nose end of the bullets were fatty tissue. 

Maybe she brought her arm up, she has an exit wound on her left are just above the wrist...

[Patti]

Nope, hollow point and sub-sonic, I think anyway. 

Xtra Plus: http://www.shoot.ie/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=55

Xtra: http://www.championshooters.com/Eley3.html

That is a modern day weight. What would the weight have been in 1985? It is more likely the weight would have been 2.59 or anything between 2.49 and 2.59.....

Now that what you have sent me, differs from the one Mike has sent me.   

[-Harters-]

That is a modern day weight. What would the weight have been in 1985? It is more likely the weight would have been 2.59 or anything between 2.49 and 2.59.....

Now that what you have sent me, differs from the one Mike has sent me.   

Yes, I've never seen one lighter than 2.43g, also not one which doesn't have a sub-title like Xtra or Xtra-Plus, so maybe the bullets used are no longer manufactured. I'm not sure, I'm certainly no expert.

[mike tesko]

That is a modern day weight. What would the weight have been in 1985? It is more likely the weight would have been 2.59 or anything between 2.49 and 2.59.....

Now that what you have sent me, differs from the one Mike has sent me.   

Manufacturers weight chart is / was for Eley .22 LR subsonic hollow point in 1984 /85 - obtained by the Manchester McKenzie organisation as part of its campaign to prove Jeremy was wrongly convicted...


Bullet weight of 2.27 grams was / is relevant for the material time...

[mike tesko]

Evidence and information I have access to is retained on storage facility which I shall refer to as ENIGMA...

Thousands upon thousands of documents and photographs some of which have not yet been mentioned is stored on this facility...

[Patti]

Hi Mike. The bullets must have weighed more that 2.27 unless the weighing scales were wrong...but Im not going to go down that path eh? Good night to you....

[mike tesko]

Hi Mike. The bullets must have weighed more that 2.27 unless the weighing scales were wrong...but Im not going to go down that path eh? Good night to you....

Some of the bullets did weigh more than 2.27 grams and therefore did not originate from the batch of Eley .22LR subsonic hollow point ammunition which the police claim they originated from. What this means is that there were at least two different types of ammunition used in the shootings, but for some reason the police have made it into a one type of ammunition/gun crime...

Ralph Bamber only ever purchased one batch of 500 rounds of Eley .22LR subsonic hollow point ammunition (24th November 1984) each round weighing 2.27 grams. However, other .22 type ammunition was stored and kept at whf belonging to Anthony Pargeter for use in his Bruno bolt action rifle that was normally kept in the downstairs toilet. This opens up the possibility that some of the .22 type ammunition which was produced by a different (Remington / hornet) manufacturer may have been used in the shootings, but taken out of the equation for one reason or another by the police? The removal and substitution of such bullets is linked to the substitution of corresponding bullet cases which also appears to have taken place, so that the entire batch of crime scene ammunition found at the scene or recovered from bodies of victims, did not / does not resemble the batch of crime scene ammunition that the prosecutions ballistic expert Malcolm Fletcher built his reports and conclusions, upon and around? This was one of the reasons why in 1996 police destroyed the batch of crime scene a ammunition without consulting anyone to see if they might still be required for evidential purposes in the future?

[Roch]

Apologies to The Jam and other members, for my spat with him on this thread yesterday.  Differences aside, It should not have escalated in the way it did and I was insulting towards him.

[susan]

Hi Roch  we will forgive you and Mr.Jam for anything and we don't need an apology

[Roch]

Hi Roch  we will forgive you and Mr.Jam for anything and we don't need an apology

Thank you.  There are more tactful and resourceful ways of hammering out a disagreement, especially for a mod.  But that's that, lesson learned.

[-Harters-]

Apologies to The Jam and other members, for my spat with him on this thread yesterday.  Differences aside, It should not have escalated in the way it did and I was insulting towards him.

No worries and my apologies by return.

[susan]

Hello Mr. Jam and Roch  so happy you boys have kissed and made up

[Steve_uk]

Some of the bullets did weigh more than 2.27 grams and therefore did not originate from the batch of Eley .22LR subsonic hollow point ammunition which the police claim they originated from. What this means is that there were at least two different types of ammunition used in the shootings, but for some reason the police have made it into a one type of ammunition/gun crime...

Ralph Bamber only ever purchased one batch of 500 rounds of Eley .22LR subsonic hollow point ammunition (24th November 1984) each round weighing 2.27 grams. However, other .22 type ammunition was stored and kept at whf belonging to Anthony Pargeter for use in his Bruno bolt action rifle that was normally kept in the downstairs toilet. This opens up the possibility that some of the .22 type ammunition which was produced by a different (Remington / hornet) manufacturer may have been used in the shootings, but taken out of the equation for one reason or another by the police? The removal and substitution of such bullets is linked to the substitution of corresponding bullet cases which also appears to have taken place, so that the entire batch of crime scene ammunition found at the scene or recovered from bodies of victims, did not / does not resemble the batch of crime scene ammunition that the prosecutions ballistic expert Malcolm Fletcher built his reports and conclusions, upon and around? This was one of the reasons why in 1996 police destroyed the batch of crime scene a ammunition without consulting anyone to see if they might still be required for evidential purposes in the future?

Didn't the ballistics experts say all of the bullets could have been fired by the .22 anschutz rifle? Didn't Anthony Pargeter have a similar .22 anschutz rifle and wasn't the reason for any dissembling merely that under the terms of the firearm's license his rifle was meant to be kept at his home rather than at White House Farm?