Rifle flush with body, gun barrel under chin, clue...

[Roch]

Well I invented the phrase "Jeremy supporters" to counter the acronym BGB(Bamber Guilty Brigade) which suggests similar malfeasance.As for Jeremy himself,he was not an intellectual as he failed his O Levels on his first attempt from all the small group teaching and privilege access to a public school brought.

Ok, fair point about the BGB.  Bamber would have to have graduated with at least 2:1 from Oxbridge in gross stupidity, to have executed the plan he is supposed to have done.

[Steve_uk]

Ok, fair point about the BGB.  Bamber would have to have graduated with at least 2:1 from Oxbridge in gross stupidity, to have executed the plan he is supposed to have done.

Not at all;even with the silencer evidence which may or may not be genuine and the Julie Mugford evidence which Jeremy gambled would not be believed in court the jury split 10:2..he almost got away with it.

[Moe Cassani]

Not at all;even with the silencer evidence which may or may not be genuine and the Julie Mugford evidence which Jeremy gambled would not be believed in court the jury split 10:2..he almost got away with it.

Indeed if he was guilty. I have read many articles claiming that Bamber is a psychopath. (despite his being tested to the contrary in prison many times) If this is true then psychopaths crave excitement and are incredibly impulsive and reckless. They cannot anticipate consequences of their own actions. So this may explain why things he did were ill-thought out and appear to be incredibly stupid.
Of course this is presuming that he is a psychopath.

[maggie]

Indeed if he was guilty. I have read many articles claiming that Bamber is a psychopath. (despite his being tested to the contrary in prison many times) If this is true then psychopaths crave excitement and are incredibly impulsive and reckless. They cannot anticipate consequences of their own actions. So this may explain why things he did were ill-thought out and appear to be incredibly stupid.
Of course this is presuming that he is a psychopath.

Why do people insist hes a psychopath when its been proven at least 27times that he isnt in anyway shape or form apsychpath, sociopath or have any borderline personality dissorders and is in fact extremely sane. I just dont get it.

[maggie]

Why do people insist hes a psychopath when its been proven at least 27times that he isnt in anyway shape or form apsychpath, sociopath or have any borderline personality dissorders and is in fact extremely sane. I just dont get it.

I think it is because only a psychopath or someone with some type of personaluty disorder or mental illness could have perpetrated that crime. Jeremy therefore HAS to be of that ilk because these people have already decided he's guilty. Jeremy Bamber has a sense of humour. Cold blooded inadequate people lack humour.

[Martin]

So they photographed her initially with semi-congealed blood, then moved her... and then photographed her again with wet blood, which just happened to take the exact same path as the initial flow?  Why does the first wound not follow suit?

Compelling argument, Roch. If Sheila had been dead for over six hours, but after that length of time had been moved causing pooled blood to leak, there would be an old dry stream as well as the stream with fresh blood. Where is it?

[Moe Cassani]

I think it is because only a psychopath or someone with some type of personaluty disorder or mental illness could have perpetrated that crime. Jeremy therefore HAS to be of that ilk because these people have already decided he's guilty. Jeremy Bamber has a sense of humour. Cold blooded inadequate people lack humour.

I think Maggie that it is a debatable area. Have you actually seen the reports that say he is not a psychopath? Who were they done by? under what conditions? What kind of test was performed?
The answers to these would make things a little clearer. Why would someone need to get checked 27 times? This has always puzzled me.
Incidently psychopaths do have a sense of humour. What they lack is empathy, sympathy or any sense of guilt. They do not feel any pangs of conscience when they commit atrocious crimes. However, they do feel anger, frustration and have a very normal sense of humour. Ted Bundy apparently had a great sense of humour.

[Martin]

It may not have been suggested by forensics..I'm looking.. there is a suggestion on the Crime,Hearts,and Coronets article by Police so sorry if I misled. The relevant part by Police not forensics is here:

"A consistent feature of objections to the Crown case is that they rest upon arguments from personal incredulity. Surely the blood on Sheila’s neck couldn’t look as “fresh” as it does in the photographs if she’d been dead for at least six hours?

Well, yes, it could. Officers observed that wet blood had pooled in the crook of Sheila’s right arm. Congealed blood had also formed in the aperture of the lower neck wound. One possibility is that when Sheila was moved by officers at the scene, this plug became detached, and allowed blood accumulated within Sheila’s neck, viscous but not yet congealed, to run thickly beyond the entrance of the wound."

Steve, I'm confused. I thought that that article was written by a blogger with the username Israel Rank who has also posted on this forum. I just took him to be representing his own opinion. You make it sound as if it's an article commissioned by the police, or have I misunderstood?   

[mike tesko]

I understand this Steve, but what time frame is he working to? Surely if he is guilty HE would set the time frame. Theoretically he could have waited all night - who was to know? He didnt need to get back to his house in Goldhanger at any specific time. The phone call came to the police station at 3:26am That was surely the time that he had finished his grisly work - however if not it could be a few hours later - why not?

Call timed at 3:26a.m from whf refers to, "daughter has got one of my guns"...

If quote had been from what Jeremy is quoted as saying to PC West, it would have read differently and been recorded differently, " daughter has got one of his guns"...

[mike tesko]

No because it was suggested by forensics that Sheil's blood had congealed or caked and that when Police took the rifle from the body Sheila's head might have tipped slightly thereby disturbing the plugs of blood which then began streaming again sideways down her face.

Under what general circumstances would there be an opportunity to to tip Sheila's head simply by removing the rifle from her body? I cannot for the life of me imagine any scenario where as a result of removing a rifle from the body tgat the head moved from left to right, then backward and forwards, to allow blood to run from either side of the mouth, and the  region of her left nostril into her left eye socket?

[Steve_uk]

Steve, I'm confused. I thought that that article was written by a blogger with the username Israel Rank who has also posted on this forum. I just took him to be representing his own opinion. You make it sound as if it's an article commissioned by the police, or have I misunderstood?

Martin you may well be right. I have quoted verbatim from that article and when I read "officers observed that wet blood had pooled in the crook of Sheila's right arm" I assumed that this was referring to the Police. I am entirely dependent on internet sources such as this as I don't have any of the books associated with the case yet;as I said in one of my previous posts I have still much to plough through,and maybe I do tend to take some at face value when really I should be more sceptical. Is Israel Rank a current member and has he posted recently? If so we could maybe clear this matter up.

[Steve_uk]

Call timed at 3:26a.m from whf refers to, "daughter has got one of my guns"...

If quote had been from what Jeremy is quoted as saying to PC West, it would have read differently and been recorded differently, " daughter has got one of his guns"...

Mike the Police involved PC West and PC Bonnett insist that neither spoke to Nevill personally. The logs were allegedly written up retrospectively.

[Steve_uk]

Hi Mike
As I have previously indicated, if the phone logs show a phone call made from WHF in the middle of the night and also show a phone call made from Jeremy's residence a few minutes later (within the time period a motor car could drive between the properties), Jeremy will walk free.
Please, please, please forward the phone logs to Jeremy's legal team
Jim

Jim the Prosecution case as we know was that there was no such telephone call made from White House Farm,but even if there was it would not prove that Ralph(Nevill) made it. It could just as well have been Jeremy telephoning his own number at Goldhanger cottage which would register on the answerphone and therefore appear on any itemized bill as a call which would be chargeable.

[Martin]

Martin you may well be right. I have quoted verbatim from that article and when I read "officers observed that wet blood had pooled in the crook of Sheila's right arm" I assumed that this was referring to the Police. I am entirely dependent on internet sources such as this as I don't have any of the books associated with the case yet;as I said in one of my previous posts I have still much to plough through,and maybe I do tend to take some at face value when really I should be more sceptical. Is Israel Rank a current member and has he posted recently? If so we could maybe clear this matter up.

Steve

Israel Rank still has an account and you can find his posts where he is debating with Mike Tesko and others on the alledged Ralph Bamber phonecalls. There are only nine posts from a while back. He sounded familiar with the case. 

[Steve_uk]

Under what general circumstances would there be an opportunity to to tip Sheila's head simply by removing the rifle from her body? I cannot for the life of me imagine any scenario where as a result of removing a rifle from the body tgat the head moved from left to right, then backward and forwards, to allow blood to run from either side of the mouth, and the  region of her left nostril into her left eye socket?

Again this is from Israel Rank's article whom I would like to chat to if he is still a current member. Remember that the Police did say they disturbed the body slightly and I took this to mean that the Police might have come into contact with one of Sheila's hands which is evidenced by the different hand position on the two photographs.

As far as forensic pathologist Dr. Martin Ismael is concerned his evidence is that someone pulled her feet as could be demonstrated by the different positions the material in the back and the front of Sheila's nightdress lay. I can't imagine that the Police would pull her legs and I thought this might well have been Jeremy doing this to check if in fact,he had actually killed her.