Imagine if court was deceived over the claim there was no call from whf to JB?

[jon]

If they could they wouldn't keep bugging me for meter readings.

But you're missing my point. Mike's theory over the standard / peak rates or whatever on the phones assumes that BT keep records of everyones' usage on at least a daily basis. What I'm suggesting is that they don't. The code dialled and time of day tell the 'meter' what rate to charge and it simply clocks up the units for the various categories of charge. At the end of the billing period you get a bill which simply tells you the total.

Let us suppose you are correct here , where are the bill's for the relevant time , so everybody can view them , Rivilin should have been shown them out of common decency , do you agree ?

[andrea]

Has this got anything at all to do with what we are talking about?

(1) - http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/policy/ps08_01.pdf

In my opinion, no.

[mike tesko]

Were all calls made from whf being recorded as part of some covert operation, and if so, was a record made of the conversation between (a) Ralph and Jeremy, and (b) Ralph and the police? If so, where would such records be kept, and ho had access to them?

These guidelines did not come into force until long after the events at whf on 7th August 1985, but what other provisions (if any) were in place beforehand. Are we looking in the right area? Can anybody look into this further and find out what they can about Form M414, in use from as early as 19th March 1985, and before?

What about this link:-

(2) - http://www.sos.state.tx.us/corp/forms/414_boc.pdf

[jim ignatowski]

Mike, if you will please forgive me for commenting but you sometimes appear to get side-tracked from the main issue by wild conspiratorial theories.
The main issue is as I outlined above - you have with great particularity indicated the precise sequence of phone calls to/from WHF and Jeremy's residence
In my post entitled "the key(s) to opening Jeremy's cell door" I indicated that the photograph of Sheila on the bed with a single bullet wound was one such key - that, however, has now gone by the wayside. The other key I identified was the telephone logs (the importance of which I endeavoured to explain within this thread)
Do you have the telephone logs within your possession, custody or control?
If so, would you please pass them to Jeremy's legal team
Jim

[mike tesko]

It is important to identify what the form M414 is, why it was used to record the details of cheap rate, Peak rate and standard rate telephone calls made from whf in 1985. These details that I am requesting are very important, so I would appreciate any help anyone can give regarding this matter as a matter of urgency...

[simong]

Let us suppose you are correct here , where are the bill's for the relevant time , so everybody can view them , Rivilin should have been shown them out of common decency , do you agree ?

And the prosecution Jon

[mike tesko]

What about the following?

Establish one way or another by fair or foul means, whether or not, the telelephone at whf was installed for business use, for Private use, or for business and private use?

[mike tesko]

What about the following?

Establish one way or another by fair or foul means, whether or not, the telelephone at whf was installed for business use, for Private use, or for business and private use?

Inland Revenue, treasury, business account, audit...

[lebaleb]

How could Jeremy in 1985 have known whether or not it was possible to identify the source, destination and time of calls made from WHF?
If we knew the number of units used up an attempt could be made to allocate those to specific calls. Obviously with a large number of units this would be impossible but how many calls were there? For a local call on cheap rate one could talk for a long time with one unit. Surely anyone who had recieved a call from WHF that night would have come forward.

[susan]

Morning lebaleb  In my opinion in 1985 BT could provide an itemised list of calls made from the number at WHF date, time duration of call and to what number and cost. The reason I feel this at one time office workers would use their Employer's phone to make personal calls and on some occasions if the phone bill was unusually high it could be challenged and BT would provide a list of the above and the location of numbers that should not be on the account could be seen.

[Bridget]

Let us suppose you are correct here , where are the bill's for the relevant time , so everybody can view them , Rivilin should have been shown them out of common decency , do you agree ?

I'm sure he was shown the phone bill if that's what you mean, but it wouldn't have been any use to either him or the prosecution, because they were not itemised.

But the calls to Maldon and Braintree aren't......How do you work out they are phone boxes, where do you get that information from? Please tell! lol 

The calls to Maldon and Braintree weren't from WHF. That log you are looking at with the Maldon and Braintree calls on it spans a time period from 29th April to 2nd September and yet there is only one call recorded for WHF (again to a hospital in Windsor) and only seven calls in total for all five phone numbers. Why is that? Where are all the local calls for WHF? I believe these are calls to payphones only. Or possibly calls from payphones where the charges have been reversed.

[susan]

Good Morning To You Bridget  I was under the impression that you could obtain itemised phone bills in 1985.  If you were always getting bills say for £50 and suddenly you got one for say £100 you would of course challenge this with BT and they would have to prove you had used an extra £50 by showing where this amount had come from then you could see that naughty people were using your phone when they had no right to do so

[mike tesko]

Look very closely at the two typed billing documents, (a) Jeremys cottage, and (b) whf? The format of the billing detail is completely different. This suggests very strongly that one (a) had a different type of phone contract to the other, One (a) had a business contract, the other (b) did not. One (b) had its calculated by reference to a metered call log, whilst the other (a) was calculated by reference to itemised calls as part of a business call package...

Somebody tried to produce a metered call log pertaining to whf, so that deatils of Ralphs call to Jeremy contained in the business itemized  billing log did not have to be mentioned at court...

[lebaleb]

Look very closely at the two typed billing documents, (a) Jeremys cottage, and (b) whf? The format of the billing detail is completely different. This suggests very strongly that one (a) had a different type of phone contract to the other, One (a) had a business contract, the other (b) did not. One (b) had its calculated by reference to a metered call log, whilst the other (a) was calculated by reference to itemised calls as part of a business call package...

Somebody tried to produce a metered call log pertaining to whf, so that deatils of Ralphs call to Jeremy contained in the business itemized  billing log did not have to be mentioned at court...

Where can I see these documents?

[Bridget]

Here Lebaleb:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2961.msg106286.html#msg106286