Phone call to police

[lookout]

lookout, I always have the feeling that something is staring us in the face about this case but we canr see it. Sometimes we need to really think outside the box and consider things from a different angle. As you say the pilice went about the whole thing with tunnel vision. We often argue from assuned positions when in fact there are no actual known facts except that five people were shot and killed between about 10pm and 6pm.

Maggie,,,in a way,it's plain to see what did happen,,,without Jeremy in the equation at all.
It does show how people can be swayed,,,and remain blinkered,,,just because the law says so,,,and we know that the law isn't always right,or there wouldn't be any MOJ's.
How easy is it to nail the remaining member of a family.? Just because Stan Jones didn't like Jeremy.?

[Steve_uk]

I am prepared to accept that he did get shot in the arm coming downstairs, or going upstairs, and that the fingers of his hand got bloodied as a result of being shot in the arm, because a set of bloodied fingermarks were found on the edge of the kitchen worktop close to where the telephone handset, and a pile of tipped out .22 bullets were found.  However, there is no way of knowing whether or not Ralph sustained this injury before he made the call to Jeremy, or not? It is just as likely that even if Ralph had been shot by the time he made the call to Jeremy, that Ralph used the other uninjured arm and hand to use the phone? Furthermore, how come their was no blood on the wristwatch found under the kitchen rug? If Ralph had been wearing it when he got attacked surely it would have become heavily bloodstained and perhaps damaged?

The wristwatch was bloodied.

[lookout]

The wristwatch was bloodied.

You can bet your life no prints/tests were done on the watch,,,nor the kitchen top,nor the big " bloodied " hand mark on Sheilas' nightie. ( which was probably Nevills,trying to reach out to his daughter. )

[susan]

Hi Mike  I don,t think Ralph was wearing his watch I think he left it on the kitchen table before retiring I don,t think it was the norm for men to go to bed wearing a watch or indeed women.

[maggie]

Maggie,,,in a way,it's plain to see what did happen,,,without Jeremy in the equation at all.
It does show how people can be swayed,,,and remain blinkered,,,just because the law says so,,,and we know that the law isn't always right,or there wouldn't be any MOJ's.
How easy is it to nail the remaining member of a family.? Just because Stan Jones didn't like Jeremy.?

Yes I agree but we all need to be careful of making assumptions. There are so few facts that theories and assumptions are rife. The simple explanations are usuly the right ones, all this talk of complicated  plots is too far fetched. Sadly Sheila was very sick, more than likely she was suicidal as that is a common symptom of schizophrenia, there were guns and ammunition easily accessible. That was a tragedy waiting to happen.

[Steve_uk]

Both Nevill and Jeremy would have been confused that night.
Nevill,,,to think that his daughter would finally carry out what she'd threatened to do,,,and Jeremy on first waking up and not thinking it was as urgent as it turned out to be.

Academically aware maybe,,,but totally lost when it came to the real world of the irrational behaviour of a paranoid schizophrenic. Theirs was a hard lesson to learn.

Lookout let's assume for sake of argument that Jeremy has just received the call from his father to say Sheila had got hold of a gun and gone crazy. How can one possibly not take that call seriously? He had left a loaded rifle in the kitchen only a few hours ago. The first thing he does is telephone Julie Mugford. He then looks around in the Yellow Pages for the Chelmsford number,wastes ten minutes,then it's his calm public schoolboy voice initially as he gives his name and location,then it's back to the "you've got to help me" tone. After being put on hold for a few minutes it's then "Christ..you took your time". Then upon being asked who the occupants of the farm are it's back to the public schoolboyspeak:"My father obviously". The whole thing is suspicious,in fact it stinks.

[andrea]

Hi Mike  I don,t think Ralph was wearing his watch I think he left it on the kitchen table before retiring I don,t think it was the norm for men to go to bed wearing a watch or indeed women.

I always wear my watch to bed, i never take it off!

[lookout]

Lookout let's assume for sake of argument that Jeremy has just received the call from his father to say Sheila had got hold of a gun and gone crazy. How can one possibly not take that call seriously? He had left a loaded rifle in the kitchen only a few hours ago. The first thing he does is telephone Julie Mugford. He then looks around in the Yellow Pages for the Chelmsford number,wastes ten minutes,then it's his calm public schoolboy voice initially as he gives his name and location,then it's back to the "you've got to help me" tone. After being put on hold for a few minutes it's then "Christ..you took your time". Then upon being asked who the occupants of the farm are it's back to the public schoolboyspeak:"My father obviously". The whole thing is suspicious,in fact it stinks.

Sorry,,Steve,,,I don't see,or find anything untoward in whatever Jeremy did at all.  What's with the " public schoolboy "?.

Jeremy left the rifle knowing that at some point,his father would put it away. It was not unusual for rifles to be left out of their cupboard,,,even other peoples !.
How do we know that Nevill didn't finally put the rifle away,,on account of the twins being there.? We don't,,,do we.?

[susan]

Hi Andrea  some do some don,t I very rarely wear a watch does yours not get wet when you have a shower or perhaps its waterproof

[maggie]

Steve jeremy had worked 15 hours in the fields,got home about 10 watched bit of tv, maybe a beer no doubt a joint or two and collapsed into bed.At 3am he would be in his deepest sleep and the phone rings.Its surprising maybe that he woke enough to answer it.It takes time to sort our thoughts and his head would be slow at first.  Hed heard it all before but slowly came round.Got up maybe tripped over on something, searched for some clothes.You know the scenario we've all been there. The truth is we all tend to move slowly in these situations but for sone reason Jeremy is supposed to have reacted like a robot and turned into action man. Hes just a human being with human responses.

[andrea]

Hi Andrea  some do some don,t I very rarely wear a watch does yours not get wet when you have a shower or perhaps its waterproof

Yeah its waterproof, i get up to allsorts wearing it!

[andrea]

Steve jeremy had worked 15 hours in the fields,got home about 10 watched bit of tv, maybe a beer no doubt a joint or two and collapsed into bed.At 3am he would be in his deepest sleep and the phone rings.Its surprising maybe that he woke enough to answer it.It takes time to sort our thoughts and his head would be slow at first.  Hed heard it all before but slowly came round.Got up maybe tripped over on something, searched for some clothes.You know the scenario we've all been there. The truth is we all tend to move slowly in these situations but for sone reason Jeremy is supposed to have reacted like a robot and turned into action man. Hes just a human being with human responses.

Had Jeremy admitted to smoking Cannabis on the night in question?

[susan]

Andrea  the mind boggles what you get upto wearing your watch hope you don,t go into storm drains like Bridget

[maggie]

Hi Andrea  some do some don,t I very rarely wear a watch does yours not get wet when you have a shower or perhaps its waterproof

Susie would your dad have worn his watch to bed, mine would never have. I dont thibk men of Ralphs generation would have.Far nore likely to take it iff, wind it unless self winding and leave it in same place each night. Surely he wouldnt wear an expensive watch during harvesting?

[lookout]

Steve jeremy had worked 15 hours in the fields,got home about 10 watched bit of tv, maybe a beer no doubt a joint or two and collapsed into bed.At 3am he would be in his deepest sleep and the phone rings.Its surprising maybe that he woke enough to answer it.It takes time to sort our thoughts and his head would be slow at first.  Hed heard it all before but slowly came round.Got up maybe tripped over on something, searched for some clothes.You know the scenario we've all been there. The truth is we all tend to move slowly in these situations but for sone reason Jeremy is supposed to have reacted like a robot and turned into action man. Hes just a human being with human responses.

Well put Maggie,,,and yes,we've all been there. Even the alarm going off for work is confusing at times,,,as you're not always " with it ".
Jeremy would have been the typical male at that age,,,having to do things for himself,etc,,instead of being " carried " at home,,so his clothes would have been in a heap. Besides anything else,,,I would have doubted he'd have slept at all if he'd just murdered 5 people. His mind would have been alert as to what clues he could have left behind. Sorry,,,but he didn't do it.! I'm positive about that.