Author Topic: Phone call to police  (Read 48903 times)

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Neil

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2012, 01:02:AM »
Yes, but he did not know how to lock the latch....his family did though.  Do you think he would have left a note for BW telling her to secure a lock on the window, if he knew how to lock it...I'm afraid the window locking through a umpteen bangs from the outside was never witnessed by the jury, other that the family and one officer that wasn't paying that much attention...

I am talking to you Hartley....having a debate, is that not what you are here for? Sorry if I upset you...I shall ignore you in the future.  :-\
Having read Patti's post (above) I inferred that Jeremy had left a note.  I must admit that I've not seen that mentioned anywhere else.  Of course, I could have completely misinterpreted her post!

-Harters-

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #76 on: July 13, 2012, 01:09:AM »
Having read Patti's post (above) I inferred that Jeremy had left a note.  I must admit that I've not seen that mentioned anywhere else.  Of course, I could have completely misinterpreted her post!

No I don't think you did, I'm just intrigued to know the source of the information.

Neil

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2012, 01:19:AM »
No I don't think you did, I'm just intrigued to know the source of the information.
I am inclined to trust Patti's research, she seems quite thorough.
If he did indeed leave that note, on that occasion, I would suggest that that may appear quite incriminating.
I thought it odd that he chose to enter via the window anyway, but to leave a note, implying that he would be incapable of locking the window from the outside, might appear to be an attempt to cover his tracks.  Whatever the reason, I think that this was incredibly foolish.

-Harters-

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2012, 01:24:AM »
I am inclined to trust Patti's research, she seems quite thorough.
If he did indeed leave that note, on that occasion, I would suggest that that may appear quite incriminating.
I thought it odd that he chose to enter via the window anyway, but to leave a note, implying that he would be incapable of locking the window from the outside, might appear to be an attempt to cover his tracks.  Whatever the reason, I think that this was incredibly foolish.

I'm not questioning Patti's reseach, just interested in where it came from.

Actually instead of being foolish, it's potentially very clever, it would account for any discovered evidence of entry, i.e. he could say it was from this occasion rather than on the night of the murders.

Neil

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #79 on: July 13, 2012, 01:35:AM »
I'm not questioning Patti's reseach, just interested in where it came from.

Actually instead of being foolish, it's potentially very clever, it would account for any discovered evidence of entry, i.e. he could say it was from this occasion rather than on the night of the murders.
Yes he may well have averted potentially incriminating evidence, or on the other hand, there may have been none anyway.  The actual reality was, the jury must have thought that this stank!  Obviously not enough to convict him but another nail in his coffin nonetheless.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2012, 05:34:AM »

You also have to :) explain what telephone Ralph(Nevill) used at White House Farm. We know Nevill was shot upstairs,yet was either forcibly moved downstairs or managed to get into the kitchen,where the bedside phone was found plugged in,the normal kitchen phone was left in working order under some magazines. If Nevill phoned from the bedroom why was the phone moved from there? If he phoned from the kitchen why weren't there traces of blood on the phone after he had been shot upstairs?

You do not know that Ralph was shot upstairs. There is no corroborating independant evidence except to a dody claim that 12 spent bullet cases were found in the bedroom, when originally there were only 8? Four exhibits (DRH1, 2, 3 and 4) were vacated to allow four addition bullet cases to be introduced into the main bedroom scenario, thus altering the total of bullet cases allegedly found in the bedroom from its original total of 8 to 12. Without adding those 4 additional bullet cases into the main bedroom equation, there wasn't enough bullet cases in there to allow Ralph to have been shot there upstairs in the bedroom...
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 06:17:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2012, 06:20:AM »
You do not know that Ralph was shot upstairs. There is no corroborating independant evidence except to a dody claim that 12 spent bullet cases were found in the bedroom, when originally there were only 8? Four exhibits (DRH1, 2, 3 and 4) were vacated to allow four addition bullet cases to be introduced into the main bedroom scenario, thus altering the total of bullet cases allegedly found in the bedroom from its original total of 8 to 12. Without adding those 4 additional bullet cases into the main bedroom equation, there wasn't enough bullet cases in there to allow Ralph to have been shot there upstairs in the bedroom...

Yet to be fathomed out, is why DC Hammersley forgot he found four bullet cases (originally unidentified by any exhibit reference) in the main bedroom?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 06:22:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2012, 06:32:AM »
Yet to be fathomed out, is why DC Hammersley forgot he found four bullet cases (originally unidentified by any exhibit reference) in the main bedroom?

You do not I would suggest forget you had found four bullet cases at the scene, next to the body of the prime suspect and which to all intents and purpose would have been the very first exhibits you took possession of (DRH/1, 2, 3 and 4), and then have to vacate four other exhibits which originally had those very same identifying marks, if you genuinely did find and recover 12 bullet cases from inside the main bedroom, not 8?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2012, 06:53:AM »
You do not I would suggest forget you had found four bullet cases at the scene, next to the body of the prime suspect and which to all intents and purpose would have been the very first exhibits you took possession of (DRH/1, 2, 3 and 4), and then have to vacate four other exhibits which originally had those very same identifying marks, if you genuinely did find and recover 12 bullet cases from inside the main bedroom, not 8?

There was not found, not detected, not identified one microscopic piece or trace of any blood which could have remotely  originated from any wound sustained by Ralph Bamber whilst he was present in the main bedroom...

No blood at all from Ralph in the bedroom, is consistent with no blood having been found on the phone downstairs in the kitchen - you do not have to be a genious to work that out for yourself. Everything points to Ralph not being shot at all in the bedroom, a fact easily arrived at because there was non of his blood found in the bedroom...

If I am wrong you will no doubt draw my attention to it and provide references to your source for such information - non exists to my knowlege...
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 07:13:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2012, 07:20:AM »
I did not say that Ralph(Nevill)was shot in the bedroom;I said he was shot upstairs. I just do not accept this Police conspiracy of fabricating evidence;in my mind it was more of a cock-up. There has been a £1million reward put up on the part of the Jeremy Bamber team to prove innocence which has not been claimed by any of the Police involved in the investigation.

If Nevill is not incapacitated on the landing or stairs one has to ask oneself why he does not attempt to arm himself with one of the many guns we are told are located inside the farm. Are we also to believe that a 6ft 4ins man who was a member of the RAF during the war succumbs meekly to Sheila during a telephone call simply because she depresses the switchhook with one of her well-manicured fingernails?

I am still looking for a realistic scenario which accounts for Nevill Bamber dialling a 7 figure number to Jeremy,when any normal person would have dialled 999 first.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #85 on: July 13, 2012, 07:21:AM »
Police photographs taken which show views of the round finger dial phone in the kitchen, do not prove that this was the phone with its handset off its cradle at the time police first entered the premises - such photographs only prove it was there at the time police photographed it there? It remains a possibility that police involved in the training exercise moved the phone to the kitchen to try and make the staged scene more realistic, based upon information regarding a telephone call made by Ralph to Jeremy and to the police...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

jim ignatowski

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2012, 07:21:AM »
Paragraphs 279 - 287 of the Court of Appeal Judgment make for very interesting reading.
JB admitted entering WHF via the "loo window" for the purpose of retrieving "car documents" and he left a note for BW requesting that she pay his Solicitor's bills

Offline Bridget

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2012, 07:25:AM »
Paragraphs 279 - 287 of the Court of Appeal Judgment make for very interesting reading.
JB admitted entering WHF via the "loo window" for the purpose of retrieving "car documents" and he left a note for BW requesting that she pay his Solicitor's bills

So the note said nothing about securing the window? I wonder what Patti was reading then.
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2012, 07:26:AM »
I still can't envisage the circumstances in which a telephone call was made from White House Farm by Ralph(Nevill). Does he hear Sheila going into the twins' bedroom and hear the shots she fires into their bodies,then comes out onto the landing where he is shot four times,Sheila then goes into the master bedroom and shoots June,during which time Nevill manages to stagger downstairs..however he doesn't make for the gun cupboard but the telephone in the kitchen. Let's say Nevill at this stage knows he is wounded too badly to manipulate a gun,but with one hand can dial a number..it's an emergency situation as he relates to Jeremy that "Your sister has gone crazy and has got the gun" which is echoed in Jeremy's call to the Police from Goldhanger("You've got to help me..")..whilst Sheila is shooting June seven times Nevill manages to make another phone call to the Police,which is logged as "daughter gone berserk with one of my guns".

At this stage in the scenario therefore Nevill has already made two telephone calls from the kitchen. Nevill then has a little more time to twist his bloodstained watch off his wrist and hide it under the rug,before Sheila comes back into the kitchen where she bashes him brutally in the head,then fires three more times to finish him off.

I'm wondering why,when Nevill manages to get downstairs in a fight or flight situation if ever there was one he wastes time phoning what must have at least been a 7 figure number to Jeremy when one's only thought must be for the safety of those upstairs? The 999 number would have been in anyone's mind first especially since he is injured with his motor skills impaired. There is no blood on the downstairs phone,yet we know from the wristwatch that he had been wounded,unless he somehow in his dying moments manages to unfasten his wristwatch  and hide it under the rug.

I would suggest that it's far more likely that it was Jeremy whom Nevill heard moving about in the early hours of that morning and tried the bedroom phone which was disabled as Jeremy had already unplugged the kitchen phone which was later proved to be in working order. Nevill comes out of the bedroom and Jeremy shoot him four times,then goes into the master bedroom where June is shot seven times in total,the first as she is sat up in bed,one shot aimed straight between the eyes.

Nevill is then frogmarched downstairs by Jeremy to the kitchen- in Dr. Vanezis's report there are marks on Nevill's back to suggest that a hot rifle butt is held against his skin for a short period,where he is then assaulted with the rifle and left for dead. Nevill manages to release his wristwatch and hide it under the rug,hoping against hope that its bloodstained state might be useful to investigators. Jeremy then races back upstairs,finishes June off,hurries back downstairs and fires three more bullets into Nevill,which prove fatal.

I just don't see a scenario where Nevill makes any telephone calls to the Police that morning. I can see a scenario where another person,whether Jeremy or a hitman does make a call,with gloved hand on the kitchen phone to the cottage at Whitehanger,which if records do exist,would show that calls were made,but not by whom.

The above is what I originally posted,minus smiley face,in the telephone logs section.

jim ignatowski

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2012, 07:26:AM »
Mike, I just don't understand your point about the "training exercise". Why would the Police, at such an early stage, and when it appeared to everyone that this was a case of 4 murders and 1 suicide, seek to manufacture the crime scene?