Author Topic: Phone call to police  (Read 48885 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2012, 04:52:PM »

Hi Susan,,,yes,he would have got away with it,,,especially when you read some of the links about Sheila who told Dr Ferguson that she could harm her children,,and could commit suicide,and also kill her family,,among other things that weren't disclosed to anyone under the patient confidentiality act. Nobody knew the extent of her illness,,yet Ferguson knowing this,said in his statement that he " didn't think " she could/would commit suicide.

Lookout, hi. There may be a bit of an anomaly here. If the rules concerning patient confidentiality are the same throughout all mental health agencies, Dr Fergusson was free to inform relevant agencies about his concerns for the childrens' safety. I believe that childrens' welfare overrides confidentiality rules, outstripping even confessions of murder and is the only reason the sanctity of the confessional may be broken. The reason for this being that when a child is deemed to be in danger the state steps in in loco parentis to protect its' rights.

Offline lookout

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2012, 05:00:PM »
Lookout, hi. There may be a bit of an anomaly here. If the rules concerning patient confidentiality are the same throughout all mental health agencies, Dr Fergusson was free to inform relevant agencies about his concerns for the childrens' safety. I believe that childrens' welfare overrides confidentiality rules, outstripping even confessions of murder and is the only reason the sanctity of the confessional may be broken. The reason for this being that when a child is deemed to be in danger the state steps in in loco parentis to protect its' rights.

Hi April,,,do you know what.? There was no mention of the childrens' safety. Nowadays,,the social workers would have whipped the children away under a court order at the hint of any danger. I would have also thought that the school teacher/s would have had a say in the matter too regarding emotional abuse as far as the twins were concerned because they were withdrawn at times in school.
As you know,GP's,teachers and the police all work with social workers,,,but somehow the children were failed as well as Sheila.

Offline Jane

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2012, 06:01:PM »
Hi April,,,do you know what.? There was no mention of the childrens' safety. Nowadays,,the social workers would have whipped the children away under a court order at the hint of any danger. I would have also thought that the school teacher/s would have had a say in the matter too regarding emotional abuse as far as the twins were concerned because they were withdrawn at times in school.
As you know,GP's,teachers and the police all work with social workers,,,but somehow the children were failed as well as Sheila.


Lookout, I'm going to apologize before I go any further because this is not meant to offend,but could this be a "class" thing.

I would be surprised if any teacher worth their salt didn't recognize that something was amiss with those little boys. There is a catalogue of things that would make them notice that something was wrong, but Sheila wasn't a "sink estate" mother so she couldn't possibly have hurt or frightened them, could she.

Dr Fergusson was being paid for both mother and daughter, he would also have been aware that Neville was a magistrate so might it have thought it best to keep quiet and not rock any boats. Had this tragedy not occured, would he, I wonder, ever have voiced his concerns regarding Sheila's ability as a mother?

Offline lookout

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2012, 07:05:PM »

Lookout, I'm going to apologize before I go any further because this is not meant to offend,but could this be a "class" thing.

I would be surprised if any teacher worth their salt didn't recognize that something was amiss with those little boys. There is a catalogue of things that would make them notice that something was wrong, but Sheila wasn't a "sink estate" mother so she couldn't possibly have hurt or frightened them, could she.

Dr Fergusson was being paid for both mother and daughter, he would also have been aware that Neville was a magistrate so might it have thought it best to keep quiet and not rock any boats. Had this tragedy not occured, would he, I wonder, ever have voiced his concerns regarding Sheila's ability as a mother?



Hi April,,,I understand what you're saying as things like that only happen to " societys' misfits ",,,but both you and I know that this isn't always the case. It had to be kept under wraps at all costs,,,and had those children lived,,they too would have been indoctrinated to say that all was well,,,though it does make you wonder how their lives would have panned out between their mother and grandmother.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2012, 07:05:PM »
Upon calling up Julie Mugford, he told her, "somethings wrong at the farm". These comments expressed in a private conversation between Jeremy and his girlfriend, are inconsistent with him having been planning to kill his family, or that he had just killed his family?

It might have been code,or he may have been protecting his back had the phone call been recorded and later produced in court. The significant thing as far as I'm concerned was that he phoned her at all. This was a supposed crisis and he talks to Julie Mugford,whom at that stage from what Julie says in her statement he was going to marry. One thing we are certain of is that he did make that call to Julie,because her flatmates can verify it,unlike the call from Ralph(Nevill) to Jeremy which is in dispute.

Reading Julie Mugford's statement to Stan Jones it does read as a resume of her life of the past year with Jeremy;she includes details of schemes which he dreamt up to do away with his family,such as drugging them first with Julie's tablets or burning the house down. Where she makes mistakes as to dates of her teaching practice she corrects herself,yet according to the doubters is willing to perjure herself in every other aspect.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2012, 03:39:PM »
It will soon be possible to put the answer to the question about whether or not the contents of phone log, 3:26am, contains details of a call from Ralph and Jeremy, or just from Jeremy - by reference to the metered call logs, dated, Wednesday, 7th August 1985. It will simply be a case of comparing the metered call logs from whf and the cottage where Jeremy lived?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2012, 03:52:PM »
Hi lookout  I was thinking perhaps you can help.  If Jeremy had committed the murders at the farm why bother with any phones calls he could have got back to Goldhanger cleaned himself up (got rid of any evidence) gone to bed and waited until some member of staff found the bodies and contacted him he could never have been connected with the murders oh sorry he would not have confessed to Julie of course not a word to anyone.  He would have got away with it.

Hi Susan,

Before I say this, I do actually think JB is innocent but some might say that the significance of the phone call was to make sure that police believed Sheila was responsible from the beginning.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2012, 04:36:PM »
It will soon be possible to put the answer to the question about whether or not the contents of phone log, 3:26am, contains details of a call from Ralph and Jeremy, or just from Jeremy - by reference to the metered call logs, dated, Wednesday, 7th August 1985. It will simply be a case of comparing the metered call logs from whf and the cottage where Jeremy lived?

I'm not sure I'm following this. What do you mean about metered call logs and how "soon" do you expect an answer? There was no way of checking in 1985 where a phone call emanated from;even by dialling the 999 number your phone number would not have been recorded. What the defenders of Jeremy Bamber have to answer is why upon receipt of an emergency telephone call from his father he wastes time calling Julie,then flaps around the Yellow Pages looking for the local Police Station number when dialling 999 would have been the quickest way of summoning help.

You also have to explain what telephone Ralph(Nevill) used at White House Farm. We know Nevill was shot upstairs,yet was either forcibly moved downstairs or managed to get into the kitchen,where the bedside phone was found plugged in,the normal kitchen phone was left in working order under some magazines. If Nevill phoned from the bedroom why was the phone moved from there? If he phoned from the kitchen why weren't there traces of blood on the phone after he had been shot upstairs?

An explanation is that Nevill heard a noise,possibly Jeremy going into the twins' bedroom and came out of his and June's bedroom onto the landing,where Jeremy,according to the Police shot him four times. If he bashes him with the rifle at this point,fracturing his jaw,then Nevill could hardly speak to make a phone call,let alone use two hands to dial a number. If Jeremy had moved the Bambers' bedroom phone and also tampered with the cordless phone the only hope for the family is to use the kitchen phone.

In my opinion Nevill did not make any call that night,and from the testimony of the secretary Barbara Wilson,though hearsay,that Nevill had foretold his own death in a shooting accident and that "I must never turn my back on that young man" Jeremy would have been the last person he would have been likely to call.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 04:39:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline lookout

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2012, 06:42:PM »
Steve,,,in your last paragraph stating the words of Nevill to Barbara Wilson " I must never turn my back on that young man " can also be interpreted as Nevill giving all the help that he can to Jeremy,,to make up for his lack of help with Sheila.
A case of selective interpretation there,yes.?
In other words,Nevill had witnessed the much damaged Sheila and probably felt powerless to do anything about it because of his lack of knowledge on the subject of mental illness as severe as hers was.

As it happened,,those words never appeared on a character reference submitted by Barbara Wilson.

Offline susan

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2012, 06:50:PM »
Hi lookout  we discussed this last night about the double meaning of I must never turn my back on that boy.  To think that he meant Jeremy may shoot him is not how I see it and Barbara spoke very highly of Jeremy.

Offline lookout

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2012, 06:56:PM »
Hi lookout  we discussed this last night about the double meaning of I must never turn my back on that boy.  To think that he meant Jeremy may shoot him is not how I see it and Barbara spoke very highly of Jeremy.


Hi Susan,,,yes,Barbara Wilson did like Jeremy,,as did the farm-workers and anyone else who knew him,,apart from the relatives who objected to Jeremys' entitlement should the worst happen,,,,being an " outsider "  and them blood relatives. ( who were btw still squabbling over the inheritance 10 years on from the murders )

Offline susan

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2012, 07:00:PM »
Hi lookout I am sure Barbara Wilson said she got on with Jeremy better than her own son.  Pam,s husband Robert Thingy said he loathed Jeremy I have wondered did the children of the family i.e. Ann Eaton go to private schools.?

Offline lookout

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2012, 07:12:PM »
Hi lookout I am sure Barbara Wilson said she got on with Jeremy better than her own son.  Pam,s husband Robert Thingy said he loathed Jeremy I have wondered did the children of the family i.e. Ann Eaton go to private schools.?


Hi Susan,,yes,,Barbara Wilson did say that about Jeremy in comparison to her own son. What a compliment,eh.? Jeremy probably fell over himself with his good manners too,,,which is as rare as hens teeth today.
There was something to be said for the " stiff upper-lip " of bringing up children in the way the Bambers did,,but unfortunately that kind of up-bringing didn't always have the desired effect  in some, as rebellion  usually followed a regimented household.

Offline Jane

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2012, 07:26:PM »
Hi lookout I am sure Barbara Wilson said she got on with Jeremy better than her own son.  Pam,s husband Robert Thingy said he loathed Jeremy I have wondered did the children of the family i.e. Ann Eaton go to private schools.?

Hi Susan. I wonder how long "Thingy" had loathed Jeremy. We'll never know the agenda, of course but consider this, Wealthy, couple, successful family business, comfortable lifestyle for rellies, possibility of handouts and/or interestfree loans and most important of all, no children..........and then they go and adopt, not one, but two and now Neville and June have their own "family" to spend on, what would have been family money. The "Thingys" could have spent years resenting Jeremy and Sheila.

Offline susan

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Re: Phone call to police
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2012, 07:30:PM »
Hi april1  The Thingy,s probably resented Jeremy and Sheila from day one.  I am trying to find out if the children from the extended family went to private schools and had the advantages  Jeremy and Sheila had.