Sheila attempted to commit suicide (but failed), and was shot by the police...

[mike tesko]

Even Jeremy himself, is now promoting the suggestion that Sheila shot herself and killed herself, despite the fact that I have hundreds of letters written and addressed to me, where he expounds the idea that police originally found her body downstairs, that they also found her on the bed, and that they moved her body to the bedroom floor and stage managed it themselves. He accuses Anthony Pargeter of killing his family with use of his own rifle and the family owned anshulz, and all manner of theories which are now at odds with the official line now being pursued - I understand why he may have changed his views, and why he and his legal team are going for the easier option of just trying to prove that Sheila killed the others and then herself, but if that were true, why did the police stage manage Sheila's body on the bedroom floor, and how could the second shot under the chin have occurred long after police had set foot inside whf and Jeremy had already left the scene, and he having accused the police of killing all of his family?

[mike tesko]

Even Jeremy himself, is now promoting the suggestion that Sheila shot herself and killed herself, despite the fact that I have hundreds of letters written and addressed to me, where he expounds the idea that police originally found her body downstairs, that they also found her on the bed, and that they moved her body to the bedroom floor and stage managed it themselves. He accuses Anthony Pargeter of killing his family with use of his own rifle and the family owned anshulz, and all manner of theories which are now at odds with the official line now being pursued - I understand why he may have changed his views, and why he and his legal team are going for the easier option of just trying to prove that Sheila killed the others and then herself, but if that were true, why did the police stage manage Sheila's body on the bedroom floor, and how could the second shot under the chin have occurred long after police had set foot inside whf and Jeremy had already left the scene, and he having accused the police of killing all of his family?

Basically, what I am saying is that this approach of trying to prove that Sheila killed herself, is at odds with the fact that police stage managed the scene to promote the idea that she had taken her own life -  if she had, why did the police go to all this / that trouble of stage managing her body on the bedroom floor, and falsifying photographic records to conceal for the fact that police had been responsible for stage managing the scene?

[jim ignatowski]

But Mike, where is the evidence that SC was originally on the bed?
You assured members of this forum that you had a photograph of SC on the bed with a single bullet wound but it transpires that you don't have such a photo at all (unless it's buried on the hard drive of one of your old computers).
By the way, as you will, no doubt, recall, I offered to personally pay for a computer expert to retrieve that photo from the hard drive, but you didn't respond to that offer !!

[mike tesko]

At the trial, the judge told the jury that there was no evidence that any third party played any role in the shootings or the death of Sheila, and that the jury should concentrate on it either being Sheila or Jeremy who was responsible? But, if all the evidence which now supports the case for police involvement in the death of Sheila had been available at that stage, the trial judge would not have been able to couch his direction to the jury as he did, he would have had to include reference to the possibility that the police shot and killed Sheila, an that it was the police who had stage managed her body on the bedroom floor...

[mike tesko]

But Mike, where is the evidence that SC was originally on the bed?
You assured members of this forum that you had a photograph of SC on the bed with a single bullet wound but it transpires that you don't have such a photo at all (unless it's buried on the hard drive of one of your old computers).
By the way, as you will, no doubt, recall, I offered to personally pay for a computer expert to retrieve that photo from the hard drive, but you didn't respond to that offer !!

I do not have a photograph of Sheila with only one wound to her neck, I have always maintained that I was shown one, and that I have seen one. Sheila was photographed on the bed, before she was moved to the bedroom floor, and police stage managed her body there on the bedroom floor next to the bed...

You and everybody else can choose to believe whatever you want to, you believe in your truth and I will   contiue to believe and know my own truth...

[Martin]

It goes much deeper than that - since, yet to be fathomed out, is how the control room knew that police at the scene were dealing with a murder and a suicide before 7:45am, in order for the control room to be contacting SOCO at home, asking them to come into the office on duty because police were dealing with an incident at whf involving a murder and a suicide? Where did the control room get the information from about a murder and a suicide? Furthermore, why (7:42am) was a request sent from the scene for the police surgeon (Dr Craig)  and the coroners officer (PC Wright)  to be notified about two bodies (not one)? These cannot be put down to a mistake having been made by PC Collins supposedly looking through the kitchen window and he mistakenly identifying Ralph's body for that of a female - er, how can anyone come to the conclusion that Ralph Bamber had committed suicide in the kitchen, and that he had also been murdered before 7:45am?

Impossible, Ralph's death could not be described as a suicide, to even contemplate such a scenario would be and is preposterous...

Police had not even got upstairs into the main bedroom by 7:45am, so how could they be talking about a suicide before 7:45am, to enable the control room to be contacting SOCO at home, asking them to come into the office because police at whf were dealing with a murder and a suicide?

Mike, Bob Woffinden disagrees. I copied this from his radio interview. This is, of course, a completely separate question to that concerning the location of the telephones. Strange how his "opinion" has changed on various aspects of the case.

Bob Woffinden

The initial theory was the one which bamber himself promulgated… as the result of this telephone call he had received  which was that the parents and the twins had been shot by Sheila.   

According to those logs it said  there was one dead male one dead female in the kitchen and three more bodies upstairs, so really… (was going to explain something, apparently,  but interrupts himself )   …there wasn’t you see, there was just the father Nevill in the kitchen downstairs, the other four bodies were upstairs, so when you saw the radio logs you were kind of asking “Well how could one of the bodies have got from downstairs to upstairs” Err… and it was almost like a Jonathon Creek mystery-unless it was, maybe, that Sheila was actually not dead and was still alive and had then gone upstairs and shot herself, you see, and  that was one theory and I found this the most persuasive evidence for his innocence.

 Well I’ve now decided some years later that that is probably wrong and that what happened, I think, on the day-and, after all, they were relatively fast moving events at the time and I suspect that the radio operator just got everything wrong-in other words somebody phoned into her, you know, from the scene  to say “One dead female in kitchen” then someone else phoned to say “one dead male in kitchen” and so the radio operator probably put both of those together and then had “One dead female and one dead male” in the kitchen and then when she was told there were five bodies altogether, just kind of subtracted the two she’d already got and that left three upstairs-I mean that’s one explanation of how those radio logs came to be so wrong.

I don't believe he really has changed his "opinion". That stuff about the radio operator is nonsense and he must realise it. Could it be that some people have been talking to him?

 

[sammy]

Greetings fellow peeps

A bit late in the evening I know but I came across this forum by accident and always wondered about the Jeremy bamber case and if he is innocent.  Does this site support his fight for freedom?

[mike tesko]

Mike, Bob Woffinden disagrees. I copied this from his radio interview. This is, of course, a completely separate question to that concerning the location of the telephones. Strange how his "opinion" has changed on various aspects of the case.

I don't believe he really has changed his "opinion". That stuff about the radio operator is nonsense and he must realise it. Could it be that some people have been talking to him?

Problem with his explanation - if PC Collins mistakenly misidentify's Ralph's body in the kitchen for that of a dead female, (7:37am), how come a request is sent from the scene for the police surgeon and the coroners officer to be contacted regarding two bodies (7:42am) and that one is a murder, and the other a suicide (before 7:45am)? Ralph Bambers death could not be mistaken for a suicide, considering that he had been shot eight times? Where did the control room get this information from about police at the scene dealing with a murder and a suicide, to enable them to contact SOCO at home asking them to come into the office at 7:45am because police at whf were dealing with a murder and a suicide? Police inside the premises had not yet got upstairs to the main bedroom to discover the other two bodies (June and Sheila) so how could it be known before 7:45am that police were dealing with a murder and a suicide by 7:45am, if two bodies had not already been discovered?

[mike tesko]

Problem with his explanation - if PC Collins mistakenly misidentify's Ralph's body in the kitchen for that of a dead female, (7:37am), how come a request is sent from the scene for the police surgeon and the coroners officer to be contacted regarding two bodies (7:42am) and that one is a murder, and the other a suicide (before 7:45am)? Ralph Bambers death could not be mistaken for a suicide, considering that he had been shot eight times? Where did the control room get this information from about police at the scene dealing with a murder and a suicide, to enable them to contact SOCO at home asking them to come into the office at 7:45am because police at whf were dealing with a murder and a suicide? Police inside the premises had not yet got upstairs to the main bedroom to discover the other two bodies (June and Sheila) so how could it be known before 7:45am that police were dealing with a murder and a suicide by 7:45am, if two bodies had not already been discovered?

Before police allegedly reached Sheila's body in the main bedroom with it being allegedly laid on the floor next to the bed, police would have by that stage had to have found three bodies, before anyone could declare a suicide at the scene, namely the body of Ralph Bamber in the kitchen, followed by the body of June Bamber in the bedroom doorway, and then the body of Sheila on the floor beyond the bed? In the circumstances of how this case has been reported (falsely) police would need to refer to the discovery of three bodies before any mention is made of a suicide, involving two murders and a suicide...

[susan]

Morning sammy and welcome to the forum yes the majority of the forum members are suporters of Jeremy and his freedom.

[lebaleb]

Welcome, Sammy. I believe people are innocent until proven guilty. In my opinion, the critical point of 'beyond reasonable doubt' was never even close.

[Jane]

So.. if these experienced police officers should have known that the scene looked false as it was, wouldn't they have made a better job? It could be argued that the scene looks as if it were staged by someone inexperienced in these things, i.e. JB.

Of course that doesn't explain why they were fooled for a month, but then they'd had their heads filled with stories of Sheila's mental health and Neville's phone call. But maybe this is why Stan Jones was suspicious?

Morning Bridget. I think you may be looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. That morning, when the police first went in the found a dead male and a (semi?)dead female downstairs. They did a search which revealed three more bodies and it was probably from upstairs that they told the ambulance to stand down. So now there is nobody in the house but the police and 5 bodies, or so they believe, but when they go downstairs via the main staircase, there is only one body in the place where previously there had been two.

I imagine at this point they are s!!!!!g themselves!!!! It must have been with some relief that they find her collapsed on the bed. They had expected to find 4 murders and 1 suicide and but for a blip, it's what they still had. She had a neck wound so it was simplicity itself to place a weapon at such a position that it seemed as if she had lain on the bed to shoot herself. It could easily have been that the gun was fired during this operation. Inspite that there was nobody there but them, they must have been unnerved by what had happened. They would have known the scene was wrong, but they needed to make it look right. Having completed the task all they had to do was wait for the photographers to do their job, and then the undertakers could do theirs. I'll bet those police involved couldn't wait to get out of the house, but at least they had successfully covered their tracks, no questions would be asked and in any case who was there to ask them. Sighs of relief all round, I imagine. Their secret was safe..........

.........For 33 days.

[Bridget]

Morning Bridget. I think you may be looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. That morning, when the police first went in the found a dead male and a (semi?)dead female downstairs. They did a search which revealed three more bodies and it was probably from upstairs that they told the ambulance to stand down. So now there is nobody in the house but the police and 5 bodies, or so they believe, but when they go downstairs via the main staircase, there is only one body in the place where previously there had been two.

I imagine at this point they are s!!!!!g themselves!!!! It must have been with some relief that they find her collapsed on the bed. They had expected to find 4 murders and 1 suicide and but for a blip, it's what they still had. She had a neck wound so it was simplicity itself to place a weapon at such a position that it seemed as if she had lain on the bed to shoot herself. It could easily have been that the gun was fired during this operation. Inspite that there was nobody there but them, they must have been unnerved by what had happened. They would have known the scene was wrong, but they needed to make it look right. Having completed the task all they had to do was wait for the photographers to do their job, and then the undertakers could do theirs. I'll bet those police involved couldn't wait to get out of the house, but at least they had successfully covered their tracks, no questions would be asked and in any case who was there to ask them. Sighs of relief all round, I imagine. Their secret was safe..........

.........For 33 days.

I keep asking this question - why did they need to cover anything up? Given the supposed situation it wouldn't have mattered if she'd died in a hail of police bullets. In your scenario, why, having found her collapsed on the bed, would they feel the need to place the gun in such a position to make it appear like suicide? And again, if they accidentally shot her whilst positioning the gun, they could simply have said that it went off when they were trying to take it from her.

[boheme]

I keep asking this question - why did they need to cover anything up? Given the supposed situation it wouldn't have mattered if she'd died in a hail of police bullets. In your scenario, why, having found her collapsed on the bed, would they feel the need to place the gun in such a position to make it appear like suicide? And again, if they accidentally shot her whilst positioning the gun, they could simply have said that it went off when they were trying to take it from her.

I agree, even if they killed her accidentally they would not need to cover it up.....

[Jane]

I keep asking this question - why did they need to cover anything up? Given the supposed situation it wouldn't have mattered if she'd died in a hail of police bullets. In your scenario, why, having found her collapsed on the bed, would they feel the need to place the gun in such a position to make it appear like suicide? And again, if they accidentally shot her whilst positioning the gun, they could simply have said that it went off when they were trying to take it from her.