Sheila attempted to commit suicide (but failed), and was shot by the police...

[mike tesko]

Sorry about spelling mistakes - well, police state categorically that no-one moved or touched anything until after PC Bird took his crime scene pictures, but they have lied...

look at the pictures PC Bird took, and we can all see the police have lied, and that in fact they did n=move things around whilst PC Bird was taking his pictures...

You do not tell lies of this nature unless you are trying to cover something up...

"Oh, look, we shot and killed Sheila, but it doesn't matter because she was already pronounced as being dead by the police surgeon at 8:44am"...

If you get my drift?

How do you end up killing someone who has already been pronounced as already being dead, and who has been declared as being dead from as long ago, as 7:37am (by members of the raid team) and at 8:44am (by the police surgeon, Dr Craig?

"It's official, we shot and killed her, but she was already pronounced as being dead, twice beforehand"...

Mmmmmmn....

[Jane]

How do you end up killing someone who has already been pronounced as already being dead, and who has been declared as being dead from as long ago, as 7:37am (by members of the raid team) and at 8:44am (by the police surgeon, Dr Craig?

"It's official, we shot and killed her, but she was already pronounced as being dead, twice beforehand"...

Mmmmmmn....

Mike, for 33 days it didn't matter. 4 murders and 1 suicide. Who was going to say differently? If the rellies hadn't started poking around we'd still be none the wiser.

[Steve_uk]

It seems a huge step to fake a cover-up just because someone on a walkie-talkie relays to base that one male and one female body have been found in the kitchen. I'm sure there was a possibility that Police upstairs moved the rifle and then put it back again,but why not just leave it where they found it beside the body without trying to put Sheila's hands on the trigger?

[Roch]

It seems a huge step to fake a cover-up just because someone on a walkie-talkie relays to base that one male and one female body have been found in the kitchen. I'm sure there was a possibility that Police upstairs moved the rifle and then put it back again,but why not just leave it where they found it beside the body without trying to put Sheila's hands on the trigger?

It's almost as if somebody was shouting "Look!  She's committed suicide!".  A ham fisted, badly staged, unconvincing suicide.  How on earth could some of the force's most senior and experienced detectives, witness and survey this scene... and come away thinking  "Yep.. it's just a two shot suicide.  Back to base lads... someone put the kettle on". 

Bullshit

There's no way they would survey that scene and come away with that attitiude unless they had staged it themselves, in desperation.

[jon]

It's almost as if somebody was shouting "Look!  She's committed suicide!".  A ham fisted, badly staged, unconvincing suicide.  How on earth could some of the force's most senior and experienced detectives, witness and survey this scene... and come away thinking  "Yep.. it's just a two shot suicide.  Back to base lads... someone put the kettle on". 

Bullshit

There's no way they would survey that scene and come away with that attitiude unless they had staged it themselves, in desperation.

Very true Roch , experienced policemen would know that scene was stage managed by somebody , with their eyes closed !! How can anybody not see a gun ending up in that position , had been put there by somebody else apart from SC ?

[mike tesko]

Very true Roch , experienced policemen would know that scene was stage managed by somebody , with their eyes closed !! How can anybody not see a gun ending up in that position , had been put there by somebody else apart from SC ?

And they claimed that Jeremy almost got away with the perfect murders?

What a joke...

If the jury had been shown all the crime scene photographs taken by PC Bird, (and others) at the scene on the morning of the investigation, they would have been left in no doubt at all who had actually stage  managed the body of Sheila, and that no-one other than Sheila herself or the police could have fired the second fatal shot under the chin which killed her. The jury never got to see the different crime scene photographs which showed the barrel of the gun in different positions against and in the region of her neck, and the corresponding photographs that show how the police shifted her right hand about near to the trigger? If they had been told that no-one checked the anshulz rifle to see if it was loaded with bullets until 11:15am that morning (after PC Bird had taken his photographs) it would have been possible for the jury to accept that Sheila got shot (whether by her own hand or by the police who mishandled a loaded rifle whilst moving it about on Sheila's body), under the chin with bullet PV/19, not by Jeremy, or any as yet unidentified killer. The jury would almost certainly have also concluded that her blood could not have got inside the silencer at the time that second fatal shot under the chin had been inflicted, and the silencer could not have been placed inside the gun cupboard by Jeremy or any would be as yet unidentified killer, because she was shot long after Jeremy left the scene to go back to his cottage with the police where he made a witness statement. If a silencer was fitted to the rifles barrel that fired that second shot under the chin, the police would have known about it, because they were moving the rifle about on her body before PS Woodcock made it safe and checked it for bullets at 11:15am...

[Bridget]

Very true Roch , experienced policemen would know that scene was stage managed by somebody , with their eyes closed !! How can anybody not see a gun ending up in that position , had been put there by somebody else apart from SC ?

So.. if these experienced police officers should have known that the scene looked false as it was, wouldn't they have made a better job? It could be argued that the scene looks as if it were staged by someone inexperienced in these things, i.e. JB.

Of course that doesn't explain why they were fooled for a month, but then they'd had their heads filled with stories of Sheila's mental health and Neville's phone call. But maybe this is why Stan Jones was suspicious?

[mike tesko]

Police had to arrange for the bullet (PV/20) which was  fragmented, to be swapped over and replaced by a different whole control bullet which must have been test fired via the anshulz rifle, so that they could keep this a one gun crime, and conceal the truth about how Sheila was shot twice, once downstairs, and secondly, upstairs?

You do not tamper with a crime scene bullet unless you have got something to hide...

Ask yourselves this question - do you think or believe that someone swapped over the original fragmented bullet (PV/20) for a substituted whole control bullet for the purpose of making it a one gun matter relating to both shots inflicted to Sheila's neck / throat?

Yes, or no?

If no, how do you account for the transformation of a fragmented bullet as of 7th August 1985, miraculously becoming transformed into a whole bullet that the ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, was able to positively link as having been fired via the anshulz rifle, along with bullet PV19?

[mike tesko]

It seems a huge step to fake a cover-up just because someone on a walkie-talkie relays to base that one male and one female body have been found in the kitchen. I'm sure there was a possibility that Police upstairs moved the rifle and then put it back again,but why not just leave it where they found it beside the body without trying to put Sheila's hands on the trigger?

It goes much deeper than that - since, yet to be fathomed out, is how the control room knew that police at the scene were dealing with a murder and a suicide before 7:45am, in order for the control room to be contacting SOCO at home, asking them to come into the office on duty because police were dealing with an incident at whf involving a murder and a suicide? Where did the control room get the information from about a murder and a suicide? Furthermore, why (7:42am) was a request sent from the scene for the police surgeon (Dr Craig)  and the coroners officer (PC Wright)  to be notified about two bodies (not one)? These cannot be put down to a mistake having been made by PC Collins supposedly looking through the kitchen window and he mistakenly identifying Ralph's body for that of a female - er, how can anyone come to the conclusion that Ralph Bamber had committed suicide in the kitchen, and that he had also been murdered before 7:45am?

Impossible, Ralph's death could not be described as a suicide, to even contemplate such a scenario would be and is preposterous...

Police had not even got upstairs into the main bedroom by 7:45am, so how could they be talking about a suicide before 7:45am, to enable the control room to be contacting SOCO at home, asking them to come into the office because police at whf were dealing with a murder and a suicide?

[mike tesko]

So.. if these experienced police officers should have known that the scene looked false as it was, wouldn't they have made a better job? It could be argued that the scene looks as if it were staged by someone inexperienced in these things, i.e. JB.

Of course that doesn't explain why they were fooled for a month, but then they'd had their heads filled with stories of Sheila's mental health and Neville's phone call. But maybe this is why Stan Jones was suspicious?

Police were easily able to get around this problem, by being selective about which photographs (if any) were disclosed in time for the opening of the inquest on 14th August 1985. This matter was rigorously sorted out by the time Jeremy was arrested, because although there had existed 581 photographs in an album which became known as "The Senior Investigating Officers Album", police arranged for PC Bird to create a false photographic schedule declaring that police had only taken 223 photographs which were contained in a misleading tilted album which has become known as "THE MASTER COPY ALBUM".  A total of 358 photographs were removed from the equation, just so a false case against Jeremy could be mounted, based upon the theory that Jeremy had killed everyone including Sheila, and that he had stage managed her body to fool police into thinking she had then taken her on life? They set about trying to achieve this (and succeeded) by hiding away the existence of 358 photographs, many of which show that police stage managed Sheila's body, not Jeremy or anyone else, and that the prosecutions case at trial was based on false evidence and involved a conspiracy by Essex police to try and convict Jeremy of these murders on the basis that he had stage managed his sisters body to fool police into thinking she had killed the others and then taken her own life, when all along the police stage managed her body, and if anyone fooled anyone, it was Essex police who fooled the jury and themselves, into thinking they could get away with what they have undoubtedly done and been responsible for...

You do not hide and conceal 358 photographs from Bamber and his legal team, and from the court which is trying the matter, (and the general public) unless you have got a dark secret that you do not want anyone to find out about...

[jim ignatowski]

and all this is based upon the foundation of a report which refers to a male and a female found downstairs
jeremy's legal team will never, ever seek to persuade a judge of the truth of the contention that sheila was shot downstairs, fled upstairs and was (perhaps accidently) shot by a police officer
it is utter nonsense

[Bridget]

Sorry, it's late and I can't take all that in. Are you saying that they stage managed it to look like it had been stage managed? If so, why did they then go with the 4 murders and a suicide theory for a month?

[mike tesko]

It goes much deeper than that - since, yet to be fathomed out, is how the control room knew that police at the scene were dealing with a murder and a suicide before 7:45am, in order for the control room to be contacting SOCO at home, asking them to come into the office on duty because police were dealing with an incident at whf involving a murder and a suicide? Where did the control room get the information from about a murder and a suicide? Furthermore, why (7:42am) was a request sent from the scene for the police surgeon (Dr Craig)  and the coroners officer (PC Wright)  to be notified about two bodies (not one)? These cannot be put down to a mistake having been made by PC Collins supposedly looking through the kitchen window and he mistakenly identifying Ralph's body for that of a female - er, how can anyone come to the conclusion that Ralph Bamber had committed suicide in the kitchen, and that he had also been murdered before 7:45am?

Impossible, Ralph's death could not be described as a suicide, to even contemplate such a scenario would be and is preposterous...

Police had not even got upstairs into the main bedroom by 7:45am, so how could they be talking about a suicide before 7:45am, to enable the control room to be contacting SOCO at home, asking them to come into the office because police at whf were dealing with a murder and a suicide?

I would suggest that the entry in the police radio log timed at 7:37am (the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female found in kitchen upon entry) and the fact that the control room must have been informed that police at the scene were dealing with two bodies (7:42am) and that one was a murder, and the other a suicide (before 7:45am), helps to expose the story introduced by PC Collins and others that he mistakenly identified Ralph Bambers bullet riddled body for the body of a female, as a concoction to try and get around details being leaked out about the discovery of Sheila's body in the region of the kitchen, and pronounced or reported as being dead by members of the raid team at about 7:37am, or there abouts. You do not make the mistake of declaring that two bodies have been found upon entry to the kitchen, and that one of these two bodies is a dead male, and the other a dead female, and that one is a murder and the other a suicide, if PC Collins simply made a mistake in wrongly identifying Ralph's bullet riddled body for that of a dead female?

[mike tesko]

and all this is based upon the foundation of a report which refers to a male and a female found downstairs
jeremy's legal team will never, ever seek to persuade a judge of the truth of the contention that sheila was shot downstairs, fled upstairs and was (perhaps accidently) shot by a police officer
it is utter nonsense

Well, Jeremy's legal team can do whatever they want to, and for your in formation I have got letters written by Jeremy where he talks about the police originally finding Sheila's body downstairs and mistakenly believing she was / is dead. I have also got other letters written by Jeremy to me, where he talks about Sheila's body on the bed, and that police moved her body to the bedroom floor, so I am not particularly bothered what his legal team might do or not do. I suppose they will go with the argument that Sheila shot herself, they will take the path of least resistance, because it is a much easier option to take, but it doesn't mean that their approach is the right one which proves how Sheila died, or where she was supposed to have died, sure, let them take the easy option, but why should I?

[mike tesko]

Well, Jeremy's legal team can do whatever they want to, and for your in formation I have got letters written by Jeremy where he talks about the police originally finding Sheila's body downstairs and mistakenly believing she was / is dead. I have also got other letters written by Jeremy to me, where he talks about Sheila's body on the bed, and that police moved her body to the bedroom floor, so I am not particularly bothered what his legal team might do or not do. I suppose they will go with the argument that Sheila shot herself, they will take the path of least resistance, because it is a much easier option to take, but it doesn't mean that their approach is the right one which proves how Sheila died, or where she was supposed to have died, sure, let them take the easy option, but why should I?

We have some things in common, and that is that Jeremy did not kill his family, and he did not stage manage his sisters body to fool the police into thinking she killed the others and then herself. we are also in agreement that a silencer was not fitted to the barrel of the anshulz rifle which fired the fatal shot under the chin...