Sheila attempted to commit suicide (but failed), and was shot by the police...

[mike tesko]

Police blamed Jeremy for stage managing Sheila's body, but it was the police who stage managed her body wasn't it?

Why don't the police just own up to what they did (stage manage her body), and agree that they wrongly blamed Jeremy for doing precisely that which they themselves had done?

[mike tesko]

Police blamed Jeremy for stage managing Sheila's body, but it was the police who stage managed her body wasn't it?

Why don't the police just own up to what they did (they stage managed her body), and agree that they wrongly blamed Jeremy for doing precisely that which they themselves had done?

Make of this what you will...

[Roch]

That seems a pretty fair summary of the problems, now what are the answers? 

My guess is that RWB didn't share all of what he had found out with his off-spring.  I think that where CAE and later DB shared RWB's distrust, suspicion and disdain for JB, they were not made privy to some of the info he received. 

I think JB had a dodgy side which impacted upon some but not others.  Those who he impacted upon had no qualms about getting shot of him and subsequently stuck together when the need arose (i.e. statements / scratches / silencer).  I think the financial implications regarding estate / inheritance etc, merely compounded the fate of JB.  However I have a feeling that in the case of RWB, there was more to it than that, i.e. it was more of a motivation.  I think that after the killings, everything JB had ever done or said was reinterpreted with a sinister bent.

I think the police were stuck between a rock and a hard place due to the raid / crime scene etc.  Under mounting pressure, they chose the lesser of two evils from their own perspective.  They burned a cad and they twisted arms / called in favours to do so.   It was slight of hand.  They ruthlessly ditched anything that was supportive of JB, in order to play up the cad.  The silencer evidence was created and the whole Mugford episode was engineered, coerced and managed, literally micro managed.  It must have been an exhausting process to make her 'credible'.

I think potential waverers were silenced in the wake of Taff Jones' death.  If there was nothing sinister in it, they had still lost their figurehead.  It was a new regime.

In two months time, I'll probably tell you something completely different.

 

[Roch]

Actually Roch, it was my question but as Bridget said - what are the answers? Speculation just makes more questions than answers.
Also, regards the picture - no one would surely hand over such an important piece of evidence without 'first' making a copy and you would 'never' had over the original! If there is such a picture, why not just post it here and then we can ALL lobby the CCRC with the same information and something might happen BUT if it is simply a case of someone needing people to think they know something others don't - well, that's not really helping anyone.

I'm ambivalent regarding this pic.  I haven't got a clue as to what is going on with it, if it exists.  I see your point about speculation, which I am guilty of.  It really does create more questions than answers.

[Caroline R]

Police blamed Jeremy for stage managing Sheila's body, but it was the police who stage managed her body wasn't it?

Why don't the police just own up to what they did (stage manage her body), and agree that they wrongly blamed Jeremy for doing precisely that which they themselves had done?

If you know this (and I mean REALLY KNOW 100%) why don't you do something about it? If you are indeed in possession on this picture - it would be a very powerful piece of evidence. It would render their whole case obsolete and as sound as a house of cards!

[Caroline R]

My guess is that RWB didn't share all of what he had found out with his off-spring.  I think that where CAE and later DB shared RWB's distrust, suspicion and disdain for JB, they were not made privy to some of the info he received. 

I think JB had a dodgy side which impacted upon some but not others.  Those who he impacted upon had no qualms about getting shot of him and subsequently stuck together when the need arose (i.e. statements / scratches / silencer).  I think the financial implications regarding estate / inheritance etc, merely compounded the fate of JB.  However I have a feeling that in the case of RWB, there was more to it than that, i.e. it was more of a motivation.  I think that after the killings, everything JB had ever done or said was reinterpreted with a sinister bent.

I think the police were stuck between a rock and a hard place due to the raid / crime scene etc.  Under mounting pressure, they chose the lesser of two evils from their own perspective.  They burned a cad and they twisted arms / called in favours to do so.   It was slight of hand.  They ruthlessly ditched anything that was supportive of JB, in order to play up the cad.  The silencer evidence was created and the whole Mugford episode was engineered, coerced and managed, literally micro managed.  It must have been an exhausting process to make her 'credible'.

I think potential waverers were silenced in the wake of Taff Jones' death.  If there was nothing sinister in it, they had still lost their figurehead.  It was a new regime.

In two months time, I'll probably tell you something completely different.

That's almost what I believe to the letter - however, without cold hard evidence I sometimes think I sound like someone claiming alien abduction! 

[Roch]

Roch, I'm happy to go with your alternative argument adding that they may have caved in under pressure from the rellies and it started to look like the easiest option, and if they thought he would get off through lack of evidence at least they would have fulfilled any
 obligation they may have believed they had to the rellies, by taking him to court.

Yes, I have thought exactly along these lines.  However, it's not as if they provided any helpful get out of jail cards to the defence... 

[Caroline R]

Yes, I have thought exactly along these lines.  However, it's not as if they provided any helpful get out of jail cards to the defence... 

The picture that Mike is talking about would be exactly that but I don't understand why he is unwilling to post it? Does it exist or not?

[Roch]

The picture that Mike is talking about would be exactly that but I don't understand why he is unwilling to post it? Does it exist or not?

If it does, the authorities don't seem too concerned. 

[Caroline R]

If it does, the authorities don't seem too concerned.

'Authorities' find miscarriages of justice embarrassing! The defence team would!

[curiousessex]

Police blamed Jeremy for stage managing Sheila's body, but it was the police who stage managed her body wasn't it?

Why don't the police just own up to what they did (stage manage her body), and agree that they wrongly blamed Jeremy for doing precisely that which they themselves had done?

Mike

Given, your posts, in my opinion it is very apparent you do not trust EP in any way shape or form.

As such I am confused as to why are you asking them to own up to something when you do not believe they would ever do such a thing?

On the other hand you could always force their hand by posting a photograph of Sheila on the bed with a single gun shot wound to the neck. If you do not want to post such a picture you could make sure such a photograph finds its way to Jeremy's defence lawyer........... Jeremy's defence lawyer being the one person who could force EP to provide the responses you want merely by presenting the new photographic evidence. Such new evidence would also satisfy the CCRC criteria in granting a referral.

In the absence of a posted / published / presented photograph EP do not have to defend their current position....... it is you who has to force EP's hand.

I am afraid the posting of lots of questions and speculations on a forum will not generate the answers you are seeking.

[Bridget]

My guess is that RWB didn't share all of what he had found out with his off-spring.  I think that where CAE and later DB shared RWB's distrust, suspicion and disdain for JB, they were not made privy to some of the info he received. 

I think JB had a dodgy side which impacted upon some but not others.  Those who he impacted upon had no qualms about getting shot of him and subsequently stuck together when the need arose (i.e. statements / scratches / silencer).  I think the financial implications regarding estate / inheritance etc, merely compounded the fate of JB.  However I have a feeling that in the case of RWB, there was more to it than that, i.e. it was more of a motivation.  I think that after the killings, everything JB had ever done or said was reinterpreted with a sinister bent.

I think the police were stuck between a rock and a hard place due to the raid / crime scene etc.  Under mounting pressure, they chose the lesser of two evils from their own perspective.  They burned a cad and they twisted arms / called in favours to do so.   It was slight of hand.  They ruthlessly ditched anything that was supportive of JB, in order to play up the cad.  The silencer evidence was created and the whole Mugford episode was engineered, coerced and managed, literally micro managed.  It must have been an exhausting process to make her 'credible'.

I think potential waverers were silenced in the wake of Taff Jones' death.  If there was nothing sinister in it, they had still lost their figurehead.  It was a new regime.

In two months time, I'll probably tell you something completely different.

So to be clear, you buy this idea that RWB found out that the raid team / trainees cocked it up and that he used that information to put pressure on the police (via masonic channels) to concoct a case against Jeremy? Really?

Do you also agree wiith Mike's latest idea that Sheila struggled with a member of the raid team and was then shot by him in the kitchen, that despite her injuries (lacerated jugular and fractured vertebrae) she made it unseen up to the bedroom where she lay on the bed and was then shot accidentally by one of the trainees? If so, you must also buy the theory that not only could Dr Craig (among others) not tell the difference between a dead person and a live person, but he lied about her being on the floor when he examined her. So many lies..

[Roch]

So to be clear, you buy this idea that RWB found out that the raid team / trainees cocked it up and that he used that information to put pressure on the police (via masonic channels) to concoct a case against Jeremy? Really?

Do you also agree wiith Mike's latest idea that Sheila struggled with a member of the raid team and was then shot by him in the kitchen, that despite her injuries (lacerated jugular and fractured vertebrae) she made it unseen up to the bedroom where she lay on the bed and was then shot accidentally by one of the trainees? If so, you must also buy the theory that not only could Dr Craig (among others) not tell the difference between a dead person and a live person, but he lied about her being on the floor when he examined her. So many lies..

Rushed answer:

I never mentioned masonic channels  I have no problem with RWB receiving info from Carr.  Exactly what such info was, I couldn't say.  I think at the very least he knew the crime scene had been trashed and that this alone could have proved majorly embarrassing for EP who were under severe pressure.

With regard to Mike's assertion re report 1612, I haven't got a clue.  Nobody knows what is in the unedited and as yet, unseen report.  It's contents could contain anything. 

Regarding Dr. Craig, I suppose it depends upon the circs in which they found Sheila.  She could have been in a virtual catatonic state with a gunshot wound to the throat.  You seem to be very keen on the police / professionals making multiple blunders from start to finish, when it suits a guilty argument.  Yet you have an aversion to the same when it does not suit a guilty argument.

I'll be back considerably later.

[Bridget]

Rushed answer:

I never mentioned masonic channels  I have no problem with RWB receiving info from Carr.  Exactly what such info was, I couldn't say.  I think at the very least he knew the crime scene had been trashed and that this alone could have proved majorly embarrassing for EP who were under severe pressure.

With regard to Mike's assertion re report 1612, I haven't got a clue.  Nobody knows what is in the unedited and as yet, unseen report.  It's contents could contain anything. 

Regarding Dr. Craig, I suppose it depends upon the circs in which they found Sheila.  She could have been in a virtual catatonic state with a gunshot wound to the throat.  You seem to be very keen on the police / professionals making multiple blunders from start to finish, when it suits a guilty argument.  Yet you have an aversion to the same when it does not suit a guilty argument.

I'll be back considerably later.

There is a world of difference between writing down an incorrect time, or misinterpreting something said over a radio and later correcting it, and doing what you are suggesting they did.

[lookout]

Make of this what you will...

Mike,,,are you in contact with Ron Cook at all.?