Sheila attempted to commit suicide (but failed), and was shot by the police...

[Bridget]

It's known as hush money,Caroline. Why do you think the police let her off with her crime.? So that she,JM ,would" assist " police in their prosecution of Jeremy. Wheels within wheels.

So to go back to Caroline's earlier question, why go to all that trouble in order to frame Jeremy when Sheila would have been the perfect scapegoat?

[grahameb]

Caroline, I don't think that any gore would have been hidden from Julie.
After the identification of the victims she told Ann that Sheila had one wound, and pointed to under her chin. Later that night she slept with the alledged killer of two small boys.
It really irritates me that a drug user, drug smuggler, credit card thief, housebreaker got off with with nothing except £25,000 reward and now runs a school.

I totally agrea Buddy. Very well put.

[grahameb]

Hi, I am new to the forum but I have introduced myself  . The point I would like to make is that although I find what you say interesting, my problem with it is that surely had this been the case, it would have been easier to have let Sheila take the blame and not peruse a case around Jeremy. Why go to the trouble of fitting up an innocent man for murder, when a cut and dried 'uncomplicated' murder suicide would have resulted in less intervention by authorities likely to discover the cover-up?

Has anyone seen the photograph of Sheila's body with only one gun shot wound?

Bring on act 2 "The relatives".

[Jane]

So to go back to Caroline's earlier question, why go to all that trouble in order to frame Jeremy when Sheila would have been the perfect scapegoat?

Bridget, there seems to be a theory going round that EP would have been quite satisfied that Sheila was responsible, until the rellies started to produce their own evidence. It seems, that being satisfied, they allowed AE to go in and do a bit of cleaning and were therefore not in a position to say that what was discovered was either something known to them, or even something which they had missed. As they later admitted, mistakes were made.

[mike tesko]

So to go back to Caroline's earlier question, why go to all that trouble in order to frame Jeremy when Sheila would have been the perfect scapegoat?

As I say, police believed that by prosecuting Jeremy at the end of September 1985 for the murders, it would get the relatives off their backs. The relatives were piling on the pressure to get the police to arrest Jeremy for the murders, and the police either had to stop the relatives in their tracks and tell them the truth about how Sheila had died in the bedroom, and risk police officers themselves being prosecuted for interfering with a crime scene, falsifying evidence in connection with Sheila's death, perverting the course of justice, perjury and conspiracy? Essex police took the easier option, they decided to run with arresting Jeremy, building a false case against him, by use of edited, withheld crime scene photographs, and a false story about how police supposedly found Sheila dead in the bedroom on the bedroom floor. They hid over 358 photographs which would but for the fact that these were not disclosed, have enabled Jeremy and his legal team to prove that police tampered with the crime scene and stage managed the bodies. It was easier to arrest and prosecute Jeremy for the murders, than for Essex police to hold its hands up to covering up the true circumstances of how Sheila died in the bedroom? It was too late for the police to start telling the truth at the time Jeremy was arrested at the beginning of September 1985, because the bodies had already been disposed of by way of cremation, and police had deceived the deputy coroner (Mr Thompkin) into accepting that Sheila had in fact been responsible. Bodies gone, a large amount of bloodstained evidence from the scene burnt on a bonfire, crime scene photographs edited and withheld, different silencers found at the scene merged into one, and all manner of stories designed to fill the heads of the police from the gang of relatives, and story teller Julie Mugford? Such was the intensity of the information directed at the police by them, that they felt obliged to do something and arrest Bamber, Collins and McDonald - all for nothing, because there was no truth in anything the relatives or Julie Mugford had to say, so Jeremy got released...

[Bridget]

Bridget, there seems to be a theory going round that EP would have been quite satisfied that Sheila was responsible, until the rellies started to produce their own evidence. It seems, that being satisfied, they allowed AE to go in and do a bit of cleaning and were therefore not in a position to say that what was discovered was either something known to them, or even something which they had missed. As they later admitted, mistakes were made.

It seems to me that the manner in which the relatives evidence was found would have given the police the perfect excuse to reject it. But instead, they all apparently colluded in order bring in this evidence, so why? The police have never had any trouble telling anyone where stick their theories if they don't like them, and why would they do all of this falsifying of evidence - thus risking their careers at the very least - what was in it for them?

[Bridget]

As I say, police believed that by prosecuting Jeremy at the end of September 1985 for the murders, it would get the relatives off their backs. The relatives were piling on the pressure to get the police to arrest Jeremy for the murders, and the police either had to stop the relatives in their tracks and tell them the truth about how Sheila had died in the bedroom, and risk police officers themselves being prosecuted for interfering with a crime scene, falsifying evidence in connection with Sheila's death, perverting the course of justice, perjury and conspiracy? Essex police took the easier option, they decided to run with arresting Jeremy, building a false case against him, by use of edited, withheld crime scene photographs, and a false story about how police supposedly found Sheila dead in the bedroom on the bedroom floor. They hid over 358 photographs which would but for the fact that these were not disclosed, have enabled Jeremy and his legal team to prove that police tampered with the crime scene and stage managed the bodies. It was easier to arrest and prosecute Jeremy for the murders, than for Essex police to hold its hands up to covering up the true circumstances of how Sheila died in the bedroom? It was too late for the police to start telling the truth at the time Jeremy was arrested at the beginning of September 1985, because the bodies had already been disposed of by way of cremation, and police had deceived the deputy coroner (Mr Thompkin) into accepting that Sheila had in fact been responsible. Bodies gone, a large amount of bloodstained evidence from the scene burnt on a bonfire, crime scene photographs edited and withheld, different silencers found at the scene merged into one, and all manner if stories designed to fill the heads of the police from the gang of relatives, and story teller Julie Mugford? Such was the intensity of the information directed at the police by them, that they felt obliged to do something and arrest Bamber, Collins and McDonald - all for nothing, because there wass no truth in anything the relatives or Julie Mugford had to say, so Jeremy got released...

I see what you're saying Mike, but it would have been MUCH easier to tell the relatives to sod off and frame Sheila instead.

[Roch]

Roch, hi and how very true. there is NO way we can know for certain how we would react in a situation we have never before experienced, let alone know what somebody else would do. Unless we are capable of getting inside another persons head, we can't know what it feels like to be them or experience things in the way they do. Mind readers, step forward now, please.

Exactly April. 

[mike tesko]

I see what you're saying Mike, but it would have been MUCH easier to tell the relatives to sod off and frame Sheila instead.

No, police were blackmailed by Robert Boutfours knowledge of what police had actually done. He had contacts at Essex police who were fellow freemasons, and he also received privileged information from PC Robbie Carr (Metropolitan police), and contacts at Special Branch, who were also in the brotherhood. Robert Boutflour had the upper hand and forced ACC Simpson (another fellow mason) into appointing DCS "Mick" Ainsley to run the case that would prosecute Bamber, despite the original officer in the case (DCI "Taff" Jones), and a reviewing officer, maintaining that the original findings that Sheila was responsible were accurate. DCS Ainsley was another fellow mason, who knew what needed to be done, and did what needed to be done, to pacify the relative. Robert Boutflour had the upper hand, he could send a lot of police officers down for a long time, there was no way the police could get out of the mess they had got themselves into, by the beginning of September 1985, I am afraid it was much too late for that, since the damage had already been done and was unrepairable...

[Bridget]

No, police were blackmailed by Robert Boutfours knowledge of what police had actually done. He had contacts at Essex police who were fellow freemasons, and he also received privileged information from PC Robbie Carr (Metropolitan police), and contacts at Special Branch, who were also in the brotherhood. Robert Boutflour had the upper hand and forced ACC Simpson (another fellow mason) into appointing DCS "Mick" Ainsley to run the case that would prosecute Bamber, despite the original officer in the case (DCI "Taff" Jones), and a reviewing officer, maintaining that the original findings that Sheila was responsible were accurate. DCS Ainsley was another fellow mason, who knew what needed to be done, and did what needed to be done, to pacify the relative. Robert Boutflour had the upper hand, he could send a lot of police officers down for a long time, there was no way the police could get out of the mess they had got themselves into, by the beginning of September 1985, I am afraid it was much too late for that, since the damage had already been done and was unrepairable...

What evidence is there that RB was 'in the know', or that he put any pressure on the police? If I recall correctly, PC Robbie Carr was just the son of a friend who offered to find out what was going on at a time when Taff Jones was being less than welcoming. There is no indication that he or anyone else was given privileged information.

[Roch]

Police went along with the case against Jeremy expecting him not to be convicted - if it had turned out that way police would have got the relatives off thier backs, and got away with shooting Sheila dead in the bedroom...

I have only just seen this post... but can honestly say that I have wondered whether this was the case for a very long time now.  If Bamber had got off on the evidence presented, the (decent) police ITK would probably have breathed a sigh of relief.  I expect that when he was convicted, some must have thought Shit... what do we do now?  Bamber would have been tainted because there would always have been a question mark hanging over him.  However, he would never have been prosecuted even with the change of the double jeopardy law... because the evidence that was withheld veers towards him having no involvement.  There is no withheld evidence supporting his guilt.

[mike tesko]

Robert Boutflour found out about how Sheila had been shot once downstairs, and secondly upstairs by a differently configured gun. He found out that Sheila did not die in the bedroom until long after the police surgeon, Dr Craig, had already pronounced her as being dead at 8:44am? He found out that Sheila was still very much alive for a long while after the ambulance crews were sent away from the scene. He found out that after Sheila was originally discovered downstairs in the kitchen, that police had removed a silencer from one of the guns and that this was the one DS "Stan" Jones seized at / from the scene on 7th August 1985 (SBJ/1), and that the gun which fired the fatal bullet under the chin did not have a silencer fitted to its barrel. He knew about the training exercise which was carried out, and that police stage managed the bodies and exhibits around those bodies and took pictures designed to portray Sheila's suicide?

[mike tesko]

I will be back in about half an hour with further information...

[Bridget]

Robert Boutflour found out about how Sheila had been shot once downstairs, and secondly upstairs by a differently configured gun. He found out that Sheila did not die in the bedroom until long after the police surgeon, Dr Craig, had already pronounced her as being dead at 8:44am? He found out that Sheila was still very much alive for a long while after the ambulance crews were sent away from the scene. He found out that after Sheila was originally discovered downstairs in the kitchen, that police had removed a silencer from one of the guns and that this was the one DS "Stan" Jones seized at / from the scene on 7th August 1985 (SBJ/1), and that the gun which fired the fatal bullet under the chin did not have a silencer fitted to its barrel. He knew about the training exercise which was carried out, and that police stage managed the bodies and exhibits around those bodies and took pictures designed to portray Sheila's suicide?

Interesting, but without evidence it is pure fiction.

[Roch]

Interesting, but without evidence it is pure fiction unsubstantiated unsubstantiated speculation unsubstantiated received info Unsubstantiated allegedly received info?.