Author Topic: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...  (Read 29504 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2012, 12:53:PM »
That's certainly not what Freddie said in any of his statements.


Bridget,,,highlight recent images on Bambertweets and it gives you various statements etc,,and yes,you'll see what Freddie had to say. He was petrified of the woman knowing what she was capable of.
The above was some of the things he wrote.( don't shoot the messenger )

Offline Bridget

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2012, 01:00:PM »

Bridget,,,highlight recent images on Bambertweets and it gives you various statements etc,,and yes,you'll see what Freddie had to say. He was petrified of the woman knowing what she was capable of.
The above was some of the things he wrote.( don't shoot the messenger )

I have read his statements and cannot find anything about Sheila "punching the twins in the face". If there is some other statement on Bambertweets I can't see it, please provide a link to it.
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Offline lookout

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2012, 01:10:PM »
I have read his statements and cannot find anything about Sheila "punching the twins in the face". If there is some other statement on Bambertweets I can't see it, please provide a link to it.

It's on the " recent images " of twitpics/bambertweets and the statement about the children is on an extract from an interview of Suzette Ford-19.09.86. Just highlight the 3rd or 4th letter from your right.

Offline Bridget

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2012, 02:00:PM »
It's on the " recent images " of twitpics/bambertweets and the statement about the children is on an extract from an interview of Suzette Ford-19.09.86. Just highlight the 3rd or 4th letter from your right.

Ok, I see the one you mean, so Suzette Ford said that Freddie had said that, but Freddie himself doesn't mention it in any of his statements - in fact he says that he never saw her use physical violence towards anyone.
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Offline Bridget

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2012, 02:27:PM »
Hi Bridget

My view is that there is far more evidence showing that Sheila was prone to aggressive behaviour than Jeremy.  In fact save Jeremy twisting JM's arm up her back in an attempt to stop her using violence against him I don't believe there's any?

Hi Egap, what evidence is there of her using violence against others though?
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Offline Bridget

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2012, 06:30:PM »
Hi Bridget

(This is so annoying I typed my response hit post and it disappeared  >:(  I think I struck two keys simultaneously)

Anyway for a repeat performance.  Colin's wit stat refers to Sheila as striking him, throwing pots and pans, smashing his prized possessions and punching her fist through a pane of glass.  Freddie's wit stat refers to her as thumping her chest and the walls with her fists so much so he was scared for the safety of himself and others.

There are numerous other examples of what I wld consider aggressive and anti-social behaviour: Dr F's wit stats confirming her morbid thoughts re June and the twins and suicide ideation.  Helen Grimster's wit stat where she appears rather uncomfortable about Sheila discussing suicide and drug taking.  Being expelled from school twice.  Getting sacked from her job.

I don't blame Sheila as I think she had a dreadful start in life in that she was adopted by a mentally ill woman and grew up in a dysfunctional family.  June did not suffer mental illness after adopting Jeremy as she did with Sheila.  Although I'm not convinced that the bang Jeremy received to his head around age 2 was entirely innocent (thank goodness Maggie is not around she wld be going ballistic  ;D).

I accept that she had rages, but really, out of all that the only time she was physically violent towards someone else was when she once clumped Colin. I'm sure it was scarey to watch, and perhaps if a person tried to restrain her they may have got hurt, but it really paints a picture of someone who was more of a danger to herself than to others.
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Offline andrea

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2012, 06:41:PM »
Colin said that Sheila was more than justified in thumping him one, he had been cheating on her.  I would have been angry too, and would have followed up the punch with a swift kick in his nuts!!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 06:42:PM by Andrea »
On Ilkley Moor Baht'at.

Offline lookout

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2012, 06:54:PM »
Colin said that Sheila was more than justified in thumping him one, he had been cheating on her.  I would have been angry too, and would have followed up the punch with a swift kick in his nuts!!


I wouldn't have said Colins' life was a bed of roses either living with someone whose mood changed like the weather.

Offline Patti

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2012, 10:05:PM »
If anyone takes the time to study psychology and criminology, you will see that it is very rare to kill for the first time, not only once but 4 or possibly 5 times.

What the study of criminology does, is to recognise pattens of behaviour, a behaviour that leads up to the killings. It is what they call psychological profiling.

If you take Peter Sutcliffe as an example, he did not suddenly become a killer, who displayed bodies. He most likely attacked his first few victims, then came the hammer attacks, then came the kill and display...He got ambitious with each kill....

A serial killer is someone who kills more than one person, someone who has desires to kill. Someone who wants control over their victims.

In the case of what happened at WHF.....The killer displayed just that, a desire to kill and took total control....

You have to weigh up who is most likely to be the killer...It had to be Sheila or Jeremy....

Given the background and the psychological profile which one would you say it would be? 

Who had the ideas to kill? Who hated the place? who had said who they wanted to kill? Work it out!  :) :) :)

Offline grahameb

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2012, 11:12:PM »
Who was it saying ive blown all the money? now that is a issue.
David Boutflour

Offline lookout

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2012, 11:21:PM »
David Boutflour

Yes,,,and it was his late fathers' blood ( same match as Sheilas' ),along with a grey hair,that was on that silencer that David Boutflour " found ",,,and who a team of experts had allegedly looked in the cupboard but didn't see it on the day after the murders,,,,,something to do with the fact that it wasn't there in the first place.... Quite a lot of things were " spirited " away in this case.

Offline Patti

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2012, 12:11:AM »
Hi Bridget

(This is so annoying I typed my response hit post and it disappeared  >:(  I think I struck two keys simultaneously)

Anyway for a repeat performance.  Colin's wit stat refers to Sheila as striking him, throwing pots and pans, smashing his prized possessions and punching her fist through a pane of glass.  Freddie's wit stat refers to her as thumping her chest and the walls with her fists so much so he was scared for the safety of himself and others.

There are numerous other examples of what I wld consider aggressive and anti-social behaviour: Dr F's wit stats confirming her morbid thoughts re June and the twins and suicide ideation.  Helen Grimster's wit stat where she appears rather uncomfortable about Sheila discussing suicide and drug taking.  Being expelled from school twice.  Getting sacked from her job.

I don't blame Sheila as I think she had a dreadful start in life in that she was adopted by a mentally ill woman and grew up in a dysfunctional family.  June did not suffer mental illness after adopting Jeremy as she did with Sheila.  Although I'm not convinced that the bang Jeremy received to his head around age 2 was entirely innocent (thank goodness Maggie is not around she wld be going ballistic  ;D).

Just read your brilliant post egap. Once again you have spoken with the evidence that has been presented regarding Sheila. 

Of course I must add that there is not one scrap of evidence that JB was violent or ever having any mental disorders.

 :) :) :) :)

guest154

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2012, 04:54:AM »
If anyone takes the time to study psychology and criminology, you will see that it is very rare to kill for the first time, not only once but 4 or possibly 5 times.

What the study of criminology does, is to recognise pattens of behaviour, a behaviour that leads up to the killings. It is what they call psychological profiling.

If you take Peter Sutcliffe as an example, he did not suddenly become a killer, who displayed bodies. He most likely attacked his first few victims, then came the hammer attacks, then came the kill and display...He got ambitious with each kill....

A serial killer is someone who kills more than one person, someone who has desires to kill. Someone who wants control over their victims.

In the case of what happened at WHF.....The killer displayed just that, a desire to kill and took total control....

You have to weigh up who is most likely to be the killer...It had to be Sheila or Jeremy....

Given the background and the psychological profile which one would you say it would be? 

Who had the ideas to kill? Who hated the place? who had said who they wanted to kill? Work it out!  :) :) :)

But Jeremy wasn't killing for the same reasons at Sutcliffe. Sutcliffe got a thrill out of killing people, that was his MO. Jeremy was killing for financial gain - so why would he have killed before? He wiped out everyone that would was before him in the inheritence line.

Someone who kills for money isn't going to have killed before.

Offline susan

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #58 on: July 01, 2012, 07:26:AM »
Hi Patti  hope you are feeling good today.  Talking about the reasons why people kill their are so many Peter Sutcliffe,s reason was a sexual thrill he got wont go into details what he did  other people kill out of jealousy.  Did you watch the programme on last week called Lifers it was very interesting and interviewed prisoners and they talked about the  reasons why they committed murders.  Some were out and out thugs who were brought up in a culture of carrying a knife to stay alive drugs had a big part to play in murders. Others kill whilst their mind is disturbed and considered at the time not to be responsible for their actions.  Don,t hear of many cases where a person kills to gain an inheritance as they know they are going to be suspect number 1.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: If recent Arizona tests true, Silencer evidence manufactured...
« Reply #59 on: July 01, 2012, 07:33:AM »
But Jeremy wasn't killing for the same reasons at Sutcliffe. Sutcliffe got a thrill out of killing people, that was his MO. Jeremy was killing for financial gain - so why would he have killed before? He wiped out everyone that would was before him in the inheritence line.

Someone who kills for money isn't going to have killed before.

I have never heard of anything so absurd - Jeremy killed for financial gain?

And how do you work that out, how was all that /this money going to fall into his hands? There would be other beneficiaries depending upon who died first to last, surely? And exactly how was Jeremy going to achieve that, how was he going to prove who had died, and in what order? The money from his parents estate(s) was never just going to fall into his lap unproblematic. Robert Boutflour (now himself deceased)  looked into this on behalf of the relatives within days / weeks of the killings. It transpired that because the police were unable to establish time of death, the matter might have to be treated as though everyone had been killed or died in a road traffic accident, where the eldest victim had died first, and the youngest last - Sheila would be taken out of the equation if she had committed suicide or taken her own life so to speak. The money from his parents estate(s) was never simply going to fall into Jeremy' hands, there was an administrator of the wills (Basil John Cock) who would be bound by law to make sure any monies and property subject of the estate went to its rightful, legal beneficiary - so, where is it set out in clear terms that everything would have automatically gone to Jeremy (but for his convictions)? I don't agree with anyone who says that everything from his parents estate would automatically have gone to him. I am sure the relatives and other beneficiaries would have contested such a move, if Jeremy had not been convicted of the murders...

Jeremy could not have orchestrated the murders with a view to him inheriting everything in his parents estate, without careful thought about the contents of his parents wills, entitlements of other beneficiaries, and proving the time of death in the case of all five victims. How could he have proved that victim (a) died first, followed by victims (b), (c), (d) and (e) in order so that everything would automatically fall into his hands and nobody else would have been entitled to anything? It is an impossible scenario to even contemplate, let alone to put forward and expect everyone to believe it. The only certainty that comes out of this affair is that once Jeremy was convicted of the murders, he himself was taken out of the equation, and he would not be entitled to anything at all from his parents estate(s)? Any financial gain from the deaths would be contested by the very same relatives who set out from the beginning to implicate Jeremy in the shootings as the murderer...

It would be much more simpler for the relatives to put Jeremy in the frame, than say for Jeremy to have carried out the murders with a 100% expectancy of receiving everything in his parents estate and for him to gain financially to the extent that nobody else, no other beneficiary would have got anything...
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 07:38:AM by mike tesko »
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