Sheila's feet

[Newbury1]

Paul. The repercussions are more severe for a person that hires a contract killer than for the person that actually carries out the murder.JB would never admit to hiring a hitman!

According to Julie Mugford, that's exactly what Jeremy did - or said he did.

That part of her story is more bizarre than any of it.

Not if it is true - in part.

A  theory -

In my mind, and as previously posted, I can believe in the third party, but only with JB's knowledge.

Having explained to the hitman how to get in the house undetected, JB leaves the loaded gun out for him in the hope that 10 bullets (possibly 11) can kill them all or the hitman also brings his own .22 gun.
Because we do not know the actual start positions of two of the people killed (SC and Ralph) it is difficult to determine what actually happened in each of the rooms, but a wounded Ralph is eventually lead to the kitchen to be killed near the phone. Realising this Ralph puts up a final fight, but sadly to no avail.

The hitman eventually kills all, and makes it look like SC committed suicide to deceive the police, basically what JB was eventually convicted off.

JB is waiting at Goldhanger to receive a call from the hitman to say the deed was done. the hitman leaves the phone of the hook. JB then calls the police later about a "made up" call from his father etc..

This would go someway to explaining the lack of marks on both JB and SC, why JB could appear calm whilst with the police, the battering of Ralph, the clinical murder of the twins, and the final overkill in the dispatching of the adults. 

JB can convincingly claim he was not at whf during the murders.

JB then tests JM by telling her what happened and the name of the hitman (to make her feel more complicit); however JB did not disclose the correct name of the hitman.

JB had friends (I don't know how psychotic) that he could have paid with drugs cash and that person has subsequently "disappeared".

JB could not / cannot disclose a third party as it would do his original / current predicament no good, intstead he is relying on the possible position that he was not actually at whf during the murders.

(IMO)

It's possible.

1) In that case, was the plan always to get Nevill into the kitchen or was that bit a mistake? That raises the issue of why the bedroom telephone was in the kitchen again, and how long it had been there.

2) Jeremy might have left the gun out but he couldn't be sure that Nevill wouldn't put it away.

3) If that's what happened, Jeremy must have been a bit fed up that BT couldn't confirm that there had been a call from the farm to his house.

4) When did the hitman tell Jeremy what had happened? Jeremy allegedly told Julie all about it on the evening of 7th August.

Yes kaldin, as we have seen a lot is possible 

1) The idea (IMO) was to get (force) Ralph near a phone to help corroborate the call Ralph is alleged to have made to JB.

2) We do not actually know where the bamber rifle was left, just JB's word! JB may have hidden it?

3) JB miscalculated!

4) IF JM is to be believed JB could have called with "tonight's the night" between 3.00am and 3.25am (as we know this call time has never been pinpointed). I think the hitman could have made the call to JB on the phone in the kitchen, using gloves, after dispatching all, and left the phone of the hook, which could have happenned just before or well before JB called the police at 3.26/3.36am (the "just before" with the hope of the telephone call being recorded the "well before" either with knowledge a call is not recorded or a gamble that a call is not recorded.

I know this sounds simple, but the idea was that when the police entered whf they would see Ralph in the kitchen near the phone, thus supporting JB's story!

[karma]

If JB hired a hitman would he not have created a better alibi for himself, maybe gone and stayed at his girlfriends or gone to a party/ public place?

[chelmsey]

If JB hired a hitman would he not have created a better alibi for himself, maybe gone and stayed at his girlfriends or gone to a party/ public place?

You would have thought so wouldnt you.But if it was all a "bit last minute" kind of thing,then maybe he just presumed that the alibi of his car being on the driveway all night and the "alleged phonecall from Ralph" might just have been enough.After-all, the whole thing did not look to be very organized did it.

[Newbury1]

Newbury1.............I am inclined to go with a lot of your theory.The only problem I am having is why everyone sustained so many shots apart from Sheila.I'm wondering if she could have possible slept through most of it and perhaps got awoken and went into the main bedroom where she sustained her first shot,hence the reason she was "so clean". If she was the last one to be killed,she may not have sustained as many shots because by this time the killer may have got edgy and wanted to flee the scene?

Hi Chelmsey,

Th amount of shots to most were, in my mind, overkill shots, mainly to the head, the more random ones to effect a more scatter approach that SC would do - but not one missed!

This problem also relates to JB doing it, basically all I have done is replaced most of the JB guilty story with a hitman, as this sort of supports those points I have made earlier.

If SC had gone into a "mental health moment" either before or whilst witnessing the slaughter, she could have "frozen" with what was going on, almost being manipulated (forced) by the killer to stay quiet. The killer then instructing her into a prone position on the bed/floor to kill her (after all, this was the JB guilty scenario presented to the jury)

I appreciate their is a lot of my own speculation here, and it was a JB or SC thing at court, but I believe the police having been fooled by the McDonald Story (set up by JB to show JM as a liar should she go to the police) and having no other hitman leads it was easier for the police to pursue a JB guilty story as they felt they had enough to go on (and win) with this.

[Newbury1]

If JB hired a hitman would he not have created a better alibi for himself, maybe gone and stayed at his girlfriends or gone to a party/ public place?

Maybe not if JB thought the call from whf by the hitman would be recorded and JB miscalculted. A recorded call from whf would have gone along way to give him the alibi.

I am coming from the angle that some of the best laid plans can go slightly wrong (or completely).

[chelmsey]

Well this is the thing! The courts were led to believe that it could have been only Sheila or JB.A third party being ruled out because of the alleged phone call from Ralph to JB. JB would need to point the finger of suspicion toward Sheila either way.If he had indeed hired a hitman (and not a very good one at that) then he would still have been deemed responsible for the murders.

[Kaldin]

Paul. The repercussions are more severe for a person that hires a contract killer than for the person that actually carries out the murder.JB would never admit to hiring a hitman!

According to Julie Mugford, that's exactly what Jeremy did - or said he did.

That part of her story is more bizarre than any of it.

Not if it is true - in part.

A  theory -

In my mind, and as previously posted, I can believe in the third party, but only with JB's knowledge.

Having explained to the hitman how to get in the house undetected, JB leaves the loaded gun out for him in the hope that 10 bullets (possibly 11) can kill them all or the hitman also brings his own .22 gun.
Because we do not know the actual start positions of two of the people killed (SC and Ralph) it is difficult to determine what actually happened in each of the rooms, but a wounded Ralph is eventually lead to the kitchen to be killed near the phone. Realising this Ralph puts up a final fight, but sadly to no avail.

The hitman eventually kills all, and makes it look like SC committed suicide to deceive the police, basically what JB was eventually convicted off.

JB is waiting at Goldhanger to receive a call from the hitman to say the deed was done. the hitman leaves the phone of the hook. JB then calls the police later about a "made up" call from his father etc..

This would go someway to explaining the lack of marks on both JB and SC, why JB could appear calm whilst with the police, the battering of Ralph, the clinical murder of the twins, and the final overkill in the dispatching of the adults. 

JB can convincingly claim he was not at whf during the murders.

JB then tests JM by telling her what happened and the name of the hitman (to make her feel more complicit); however JB did not disclose the correct name of the hitman.

JB had friends (I don't know how psychotic) that he could have paid with drugs cash and that person has subsequently "disappeared".

JB could not / cannot disclose a third party as it would do his original / current predicament no good, intstead he is relying on the possible position that he was not actually at whf during the murders.

(IMO)

It's possible.

1) In that case, was the plan always to get Nevill into the kitchen or was that bit a mistake? That raises the issue of why the bedroom telephone was in the kitchen again, and how long it had been there.

2) Jeremy might have left the gun out but he couldn't be sure that Nevill wouldn't put it away.

3) If that's what happened, Jeremy must have been a bit fed up that BT couldn't confirm that there had been a call from the farm to his house.

4) When did the hitman tell Jeremy what had happened? Jeremy allegedly told Julie all about it on the evening of 7th August.

Yes kaldin, as we have seen a lot is possible 

1) The idea (IMO) was to get (force) Ralph near a phone to help corroborate the call Ralph is alleged to have made to JB.

2) We do not actually know where the bamber rifle was left, just JB's word! JB may have hidden it?

3) JB miscalculated!

4) IF JM is to be believed JB could have called with "tonight's the night" between 3.00am and 3.25am (as we know this call time has never been pinpointed). I think the hitman could have made the call to JB on the phone in the kitchen, using gloves, after dispatching all, and left the phone of the hook, which could have happenned just before or well before JB called the police at 3.26/3.36am (the "just before" with the hope of the telephone call being recorded the "well before" either with knowledge a call is not recorded or a gamble that a call is not recorded.

I know this sounds simple, but the idea was that when the police entered whf they would see Ralph in the kitchen near the phone, thus supporting JB's story!

Re no. 1 - In that case, wouldn't it have more sense for the phone to have been in the bedroom? That's why I asked before who moved it and why and when. It's a bit risky to make someone go to the kitchen isn't it?

2, 3, 4 are fine. 

[chelmsey]

Kaldin,I dont know how true it is,but in SLs book it states that there were usually 4 phones in the house but a recent lighning strike had broken 2 of them.Therefore the phone usually kept in the bedroom was now being used in the kitchen and there was also a phone in the upstairs office.The one in the upstairs office was described as being a push button type phone with a last number re-dial facility.

[karma]

You would have thought so wouldnt you.But if it was all a "bit last minute" kind of thing,then maybe he just presumed that the alibi of his car being on the driveway all night and the "alleged phonecall from Ralph" might just have been enough.After-all, the whole thing did not look to be very organized did it.

Even if it was last minute, i think he would have gotten as far away from the house as possible or made sure there where plenty of people around him to give him an alibi!

[Newbury1]

Paul. The repercussions are more severe for a person that hires a contract killer than for the person that actually carries out the murder.JB would never admit to hiring a hitman!

According to Julie Mugford, that's exactly what Jeremy did - or said he did.

That part of her story is more bizarre than any of it.

Not if it is true - in part.

A  theory -

In my mind, and as previously posted, I can believe in the third party, but only with JB's knowledge.

Having explained to the hitman how to get in the house undetected, JB leaves the loaded gun out for him in the hope that 10 bullets (possibly 11) can kill them all or the hitman also brings his own .22 gun.
Because we do not know the actual start positions of two of the people killed (SC and Ralph) it is difficult to determine what actually happened in each of the rooms, but a wounded Ralph is eventually lead to the kitchen to be killed near the phone. Realising this Ralph puts up a final fight, but sadly to no avail.

The hitman eventually kills all, and makes it look like SC committed suicide to deceive the police, basically what JB was eventually convicted off.

JB is waiting at Goldhanger to receive a call from the hitman to say the deed was done. the hitman leaves the phone of the hook. JB then calls the police later about a "made up" call from his father etc..

This would go someway to explaining the lack of marks on both JB and SC, why JB could appear calm whilst with the police, the battering of Ralph, the clinical murder of the twins, and the final overkill in the dispatching of the adults. 

JB can convincingly claim he was not at whf during the murders.

JB then tests JM by telling her what happened and the name of the hitman (to make her feel more complicit); however JB did not disclose the correct name of the hitman.

JB had friends (I don't know how psychotic) that he could have paid with drugs cash and that person has subsequently "disappeared".

JB could not / cannot disclose a third party as it would do his original / current predicament no good, intstead he is relying on the possible position that he was not actually at whf during the murders.

(IMO)

It's possible.

1) In that case, was the plan always to get Nevill into the kitchen or was that bit a mistake? That raises the issue of why the bedroom telephone was in the kitchen again, and how long it had been there.

2) Jeremy might have left the gun out but he couldn't be sure that Nevill wouldn't put it away.

3) If that's what happened, Jeremy must have been a bit fed up that BT couldn't confirm that there had been a call from the farm to his house.

4) When did the hitman tell Jeremy what had happened? Jeremy allegedly told Julie all about it on the evening of 7th August.

Yes kaldin, as we have seen a lot is possible 

1) The idea (IMO) was to get (force) Ralph near a phone to help corroborate the call Ralph is alleged to have made to JB.

2) We do not actually know where the bamber rifle was left, just JB's word! JB may have hidden it?

3) JB miscalculated!

4) IF JM is to be believed JB could have called with "tonight's the night" between 3.00am and 3.25am (as we know this call time has never been pinpointed). I think the hitman could have made the call to JB on the phone in the kitchen, using gloves, after dispatching all, and left the phone of the hook, which could have happenned just before or well before JB called the police at 3.26/3.36am (the "just before" with the hope of the telephone call being recorded the "well before" either with knowledge a call is not recorded or a gamble that a call is not recorded.

I know this sounds simple, but the idea was that when the police entered whf they would see Ralph in the kitchen near the phone, thus supporting JB's story!

Re no. 1 - In that case, wouldn't it have more sense for the phone to have been in the bedroom? That's why I asked before who moved it and why and when. It's a bit risky to make someone go to the kitchen isn't it?

2, 3, 4 are fine. 

1) The phone was already in the kitchen and that's where Ralph was killed. It was easier to force Ralph there and we don't' know where from really (same as JB story - we are not 100% sure where Ralph was when the shooting started are we?).

[Kaldin]

Kaldin,I dont know how true it is,but in SLs book it states that there were usually 4 phones in the house but a recent lighning strike had broken 2 of them.Therefore the phone usually kept in the bedroom was now being used in the kitchen and there was also a phone in the upstairs office.The one in the upstairs office was described as being a push button type phone with a last number re-dial facility.

Hmmmm. I haven't seen that corroborated anywhere else. I've also read that the one with the redial facility was broken and had been sent for repair - it was a cordless one which was usually kept in the kitchen.

[chelmsey]

Kaldin,I dont know how true it is,but in SLs book it states that there were usually 4 phones in the house but a recent lighning strike had broken 2 of them.Therefore the phone usually kept in the bedroom was now being used in the kitchen and there was also a phone in the upstairs office.The one in the upstairs office was described as being a push button type phone with a last number re-dial facility.

Hmmmm. I haven't seen that corroborated anywhere else. I've also read that the one with the redial facility was broken and had been sent for repair - it was a cordless one which was usually kept in the kitchen.

yes,the details about the telephones are quite different with regards to the 2002 appeal information.But it does seem certain that the bedroom telephone was being used in the kitchen at that time.

[Kaldin]

Kaldin,I dont know how true it is,but in SLs book it states that there were usually 4 phones in the house but a recent lighning strike had broken 2 of them.Therefore the phone usually kept in the bedroom was now being used in the kitchen and there was also a phone in the upstairs office.The one in the upstairs office was described as being a push button type phone with a last number re-dial facility.

Hmmmm. I haven't seen that corroborated anywhere else. I've also read that the one with the redial facility was broken and had been sent for repair - it was a cordless one which was usually kept in the kitchen.

yes,the details about the telephones are quite different with regards to the 2002 appeal information.But it does seem certain that the bedroom telephone was being used in the kitchen at that time.

Well it was in the kitchen certainly. What I don't know is who put it there and when. It's very convenient for the killer that there was no phone in the bedroom at the time isn't it?

[Hartley]

Even if it was last minute, i think he would have gotten as far away from the house as possible or made sure there where plenty of people around him to give him an alibi!

Unless that was impossible as he was running around whf with a gun.

Alternatively if he is innocent, then an alibi, whether needed or not, could not be planned.

[Hartley]

Well it was in the kitchen certainly. What I don't know is who put it there and when. It's very convenient for the killer that there was no phone in the bedroom at the time isn't it?

Yes that's something which there hasn't been to much discussion over. The bedroom phone was in the kitchen (the one left of the hook). But wasn't there another phone in the kitchen hidden under some files/papers?