Author Topic: Sheila's feet  (Read 16964 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2011, 10:13:PM »
there is mention also on the sleuthing site of conversation and a police officer. anne eaton says "menstrualblood smells different doesnt it" officer replies "well you make sure you tell the that in court if your asked" im sure mike could locate the document for us to see?
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Yes, Ann Eaton spoke about this when COLP interviewed her in 1991 - she said that the defense would probably try to suggest that the silencer had been deliberately contaminated with the blood from the knickers which she had taken away from whf, and how she had told DCS Ainsley that she could tell the difference between ordinary blood, and menstrual blood because of the smell, to which Ainsley is supposed to have said to her something along the lines "you remember to say that in the witness box if you are asked about it"...

Yes, I will try to locate that document for viewing...
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 10:14:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

andrea

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2011, 10:15:PM »
thanks mike

Offline mb1

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2011, 10:54:PM »
Doesn't menstrual blood test differently? High oestrogens (I think) mean it can be ascertained to be female blood, amongst other things. Similiar to pregnancy urine.

or have I been watching too much CSI?

andrea

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2011, 11:05:PM »
menstrual blood does test differently yes, not sure if its down to oestrogen or whatever, sounds about right though :)

Hartley

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2011, 02:09:PM »
She did have blood on her feet...

Where is the evidence that this was the case?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2011, 05:42:PM »
I just read part of the appeal document again, and it states quite clearly that there was no blood on the soles of Sheila's feet. That went against Jeremy quite a lot. I just don't get it. There should have been blood on the soles of her feet if she walked into the main bedroom - regardless of whether she shot herself or someone else shot her.

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2011, 05:51:PM »
It's been said that Sheila's feet were "clean" but I'm not sure what that means. One way or another, Sheila walked into the main bedroom (unless she was carried), and I presume that happened after June was shot. Why then did Sheila not have June's blood on the bottom of her feet? There were spots of blood all over the carpet.
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She did have blood on her feet...

Come on Mike, fair's fair - substantiate this, or at least say "I believe she did".
The statement "she did have" does little to add to your credibility. I know it's just a quick one liner and possibly not intended to sound so absolute, but it can be read that way.

When someone says "I believe alien life might be possible' it sounds like a sensible though.
When someone says "Aliens exist" it has a habit of sounding like a nutter (even if they do!).

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2011, 05:20:AM »
i agree kaldin, but she could have been wearing the socks that were photographed at the side of her body, and took them off for some reason before shooting herself, maybe? just a thought.

She could have. I wonder why the defence didn't suggest that. Perhaps they didn't see the socks.
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Correct, photographs which show socks close to Sheila's body was not disclosed to defense, and neither was any photograph showing bible in situ against the upper outer right arm...

Some spots of blood were found to be resent upon the socks which turned out to be AK 2-1, same blood group as June Bamber...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2011, 09:08:AM »
i agree kaldin, but she could have been wearing the socks that were photographed at the side of her body, and took them off for some reason before shooting herself, maybe? just a thought.

She could have. I wonder why the defence didn't suggest that. Perhaps they didn't see the socks.
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Correct, photographs which show socks close to Sheila's body was not disclosed to defense, and neither was any photograph showing bible in situ against the upper outer right arm...

Some spots of blood were found to be resent upon the socks which turned out to be AK 2-1, same blood group as June Bamber...

So which picture of Sheila did the jury see then? They must have seen something surely.

Was the blood on the soles of the socks? If so, that might suggest that Sheila was wearing them. If it was not on the soles, then it could have dripped there, although I still have no idea why June went round that side of the bed.

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2011, 10:59:PM »
Let us not assume that Sheila walked into mother's bedroom after shootings.


I'd have to recheck the layout of the house, but for all we know Sheila may have moved into that bedroom to discover what the commotion (shooting) was... and entered by the other door (close to where she was found) in which case - there'd be no blood.

It's also possible that a number of people were woken up by movement in the house (or not even asleep).

I think however that it's 'reasonable' to expect very small traces of blood on her feet had she walked around the house having shot people.

However, with a carpeted surface, it's quite possible to stand on a spot of blood and it be wiped off (as a matter of course during movement). So - forensic inspection might reveal blood, but visual inspection not. We are not talking pools of blood (for the large part), but splashes in SOME areas.

Certainly soles of the feet with blood would indicate treading in blood, but at the top of the feet, either spillage of her own blood or spatter from a victim.


Here is my theory:

1) If you shoot somebody no blood will appear on the soles of your feet (they're touching the ground), but it's reasonably likely you may get splatter from the victim falling on them.

2) If the spatter distribution is wide enough you 'might' tread in some as you walk away from the victim (but from the limited photographic evidence on here, the spatter wasn't particularly over a wide area)

3) Even IF you trod in some, it would not be a pool of blood, but a number of droplets, which, having walked further over clean carpet is highly likely to wipe off the sole (trace elements my be found, but visually remain clean).

4) There's no particular evidence to suggest that the killer had reason to return to the vacinity of a victim (thus treading in their blood) - they might well (and quite probably would) have moved away from the victim and onto the next. Thus minimising (unintentionally) the possibility of blood on the soles.

Indeed, regardless of the identity of the killer (Jeremy or Sheila) IF one argues that you'd expect to see blood on the soles, then one must logically conclude you'd expect to see bloodied footprint traces also.
I do not (to my knowledge) know of any such findings.


Offline Kaldin

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2011, 11:03:PM »
You think she might have gone to the main bedroom via the boys' room? I guess she could have done that. That opens up new possibilities.

Offline shonapugs

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2011, 11:16:PM »
Blood does cling, though. If Sheila had at any time walked through wet blood, I would expect to find traces, however small. But if she had shot anyone in front of her, I would also expect blood spatter on her feet or legs.

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2011, 11:31:PM »
Blood does cling, though. If Sheila had at any time walked through wet blood, I would expect to find traces, however small. But if she had shot anyone in front of her, I would also expect blood spatter on her feet or legs.

Yes, I agree which is why I said visually, they may appear clean, but forensically less likely.

Even so:

1) IF it's agreed that the killer would be likely to tread in blood, then one must also agree that bloodied footprints ought to exist. Where is the evidence to support any being looked for, let alone being found?
People can't have it both ways on this theory. Blood on the soles = blood transferred via footsteps. Find the footsteps and you prove it was stood in. This is just as true for Jeremy as for Sheila.
Otherwise, the killer managed not to tread in any (quite possible IMO), and therefore Sheila's clean soles don't add to, or detract from anything.

Offline shonapugs

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2011, 11:42:PM »
Hmmm, hot post. This might be an unimportant point, but can we at least lose that pair of socks from the equation? I think that they were Ralph's, and added proof that he had got undressed and got into bed, as usual, on that night.

Offline Reader

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Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2011, 11:56:PM »
If he changed as usual, where was his shirt?