The silencer, hand swab, and scratch marks on the aga, Conspiracy...

[bloggs and son]

If I had to guess it would be after the first shot, but it's just a guess, I admit.

Did the post mortem report anything about bruising on the back of her head if she fell onto the hard floor I wonder?

[bloggs and son]

I agree, it does look thick.
But I read somewhere when she was moved, blood seeped from her mouth or her nose.

That that might happen if as you say, she was moved? But of course the cops deny this?

[bloggs and son]

Ralphs blood was wet.

How do you know? Have you got or seen a colour picture of him?

[susan]

Hi lookout  I know very little about mental illness but I do know cannabis can affect your behaviour and I am sure all the prescribed drugs would have had an affect especially when the dose was reduced Sheila obviously had mental problems the fact she was admitted to hospital we shall never know what was going on in her head.  Poor Sheila.

[Jane]

Hi Susan,,,when you understand mental illness,,there's no theory about the case. It's cut and dried.
Cannabis alone taken over a long period can,and does have devastating effects on the brain on its own,without other medication. Given Sheila's state of mind,she probably " heard voices " in her head,,,which does happen,urging her on to carry out certain acts of violence. Her thoughts too were very irrational, about her twins,regarding incestuous acts.
Sheila was very very sick,a victim herself of a very cruel illness.

Lookout, hi and goodmorning. All you say is absolutely correct, but supposing on that night Sheila is not so ill that she can't take on the implications for herself and her boys without her parents. She may have hated her mother, but she was totally dependent on her. She may have resented her mother's influence on her boys, but it didn't stop her taking them to the farm.

I suppose it's within the realms of possibility that a third person, other than Sheila was responsible for what happened to June and Neville, the discovery of which could have been the reason for killing her boys and herself?

[lookout]

Lookout, hi and goodmorning. All you say is absolutely correct, but supposing on that night Sheila is not so ill that she can't take on the implications for herself and her boys without her parents. She may have hated her mother, but she was totally dependent on her. She may have resented her mother's influence on her boys, but it didn't stop her taking them to the farm.

I suppose it's within the realms of possibility that a third person, other than Sheila was responsible for what happened to June and Neville, the discovery of which could have been the reason for killing her boys and herself?

Hi April,,which would mean that if there was a third person,,there's a psychopath around,and it certainly isn't Jeremy,,though Sheila herself was more than able to have acted alone. Because Sheila had previously halved her dose of Haloperidol because of the side-effects,,she may have had " more control " in her actions. Had she lived,,the lesser dose would have had adverse effects and made her more violent.This is why it's never advisable to suddenly reduce medication.
I'm going to look up the effects of a lower dose as opposed to the the dose prescribed. I think it was 200mg,halved to 100mg.
All medication has side-effects no matter what symptoms they're prescribed for and it varies from person to person as you know.
I wouldn't have said that Sheila was a slightly-built person either,,,though in spite of a person's build,,she'd have had the strength of an ox.

[bloggs and son]

Hi April,,which would mean that if there was a third person,,there's a psychopath around,and it certainly isn't Jeremy,,though Sheila herself was more than able to have acted alone. Because Sheila had previously halved her dose of Haloperidol because of the side-effects,,she may have had " more control " in her actions. Had she lived,,the lesser dose would have had adverse effects and made her more violent.This is why it's never advisable to suddenly reduce medication.
I'm going to look up the effects of a lower dose as opposed to the the dose prescribed. I think it was 200mg,halved to 100mg.
All medication has side-effects no matter what symptoms they're prescribed for and it varies from person to person as you know.
I wouldn't have said that Sheila was a slightly-built person either,,,though in spite of a person's build,,she'd have had the strength of an ox.

That's what I've been saying all the time lookout, but people don't believe me, even though I have seen this kind of strength in a mentally sick person myself. But folk just throw it aside and dismiss it. It probably is an indication that such folk haven't had any experience with people with mental illness. Also it always seems to happen when a patient's medication has either been changed, or reduced. Doctors are experimenting with different drugs and doses all the time.

[lookout]

That's what I've been saying all the time lookout, but people don't believe me, even though I have seen this kind of strength in a mentally sick person myself. But folk just throw it aside and dismiss it. It probably is an indication that such folk haven't had any experience with people with mental illness. Also it always seems to happen when a patient's medication has either been changed, or reduced. Doctors are experimenting with different drugs and doses all the time.

Grahame,,I've had hands-on experience with mentally sick patients,,and also felt their wrath too.
No cutlery or crockery on that ward. Their unpredictability is mind-blowing.
I remember " a sweet old lady " who was always trying to escape,,,and boy,could she run. She was in her 70's at the time,but still mustered up the strength to belt over fields while 3 of us young ones gave chase,,and I swear that if we hadn't have caught her,,she'd have still been running.
Needless to say,,we were scratched,bitten and kicked. It took 3 of us Grahame and she was an old woman.

[Patti]

Hi All

I have just been reading both Freddie's statements. He is clear when he says that Sheila had not got a co-ordination problem.

The other thing that jumps out at me in that statement is the phone call she had made to her friend Tara apologising for the religious book her mother had dropped of to her. Suddenly the phone goes dead (where have I heard that before) This sends Sheila over the edge and she becomes angry and Freddie becomes frightened, not only for Sheila but for himself.

When Freddie contacted Sheila's mother in law he noticed that it aggravated the situation more. Could this have been the case on the 7th August?

Despite the poor man's efforts, to get Sheila help that day and all through the night....Two doctors were turned away, for Sheila refused their help. He also says he phoned Nevill up to aks him to come over, but he could not till, the following day.

Freddie touches on the accident, where one of the twins falls out of a taxi on return home from WHF.  He says Sheila blamed herself, for she was not watching what the twins were doing, she was thinking about what her mother had told her....

He says through the night she would become violent and aggressive, then suddenly stop, comb her hair and look calm and into space, then suddenly she would start again and this went on through the night....He fetched a her neighbour in to help him......Who is this neighbour, where are their statements?

sadly she was admitted to hospital for several months....He last saw her at a party before she went to WHF....He had heard the news when he went to check her apartment from reporters....Sheila had asked him to do this while she was away.....

[Patti]

Grahame,,I've had hands-on experience with mentally sick patients,,and also felt their wrath too.
No cutlery or crockery on that ward. Their unpredictability is mind-blowing.
I remember " a sweet old lady " who was always trying to escape,,,and boy,could she run. She was in her 70's at the time,but still mustered up the strength to belt over fields while 3 of us young ones gave chase,,and I swear that if we hadn't have caught her,,she'd have still been running.
Needless to say,,we were scratched,bitten and kicked. It took 3 of us Grahame and she was an old woman.

I agree with both you and Grahame Lookout. When an adrenalin strikes in normal people it gives strength, that is not normally seen in that person.

I'm not sure if the defence had expert witnesses surrounding her illness and her medication other than her doctors......In 2012 this would have been a consideration...

[lookout]

That's what I've been saying all the time lookout, but people don't believe me, even though I have seen this kind of strength in a mentally sick person myself. But folk just throw it aside and dismiss it. It probably is an indication that such folk haven't had any experience with people with mental illness. Also it always seems to happen when a patient's medication has either been changed, or reduced. Doctors are experimenting with different drugs and doses all the time.

Also,,Grahame,,,despite Nevill's build and size,,he still had to phone for Jeremy to help restrain Sheila when she was having one of her " bouts ". Why would a chap,the size of Nevill want assistance in calming down his daughter.? Lots of questions,,but I'm afraid,,,no answers.

[lookout]

I agree with both you and Grahame Lookout. When an adrenalin strikes in normal people it gives strength, that is not normally seen in that person.

I'm not sure if the defence had expert witnesses surrounding her illness and her medication other than her doctors......In 2012 this would have been a consideration...

Hi Patti,,if that trial was today,,it would be a whole different ball-game and Jeremy wouldn't be charged with anything.

[bob]

I wouldn't have said that Sheila was a slightly-built person either

She was 5' 7.5" and weighed 8.5 stone, which gives her a BMI in the underweight category.

[lookout]

She was 5' 7.5" and weighed 8.5 stone, which gives her a BMI in the underweight category.

Bob,,,weight doesn't come into it when someone's running amok with a rifle. That's their protection and it doesn't make any difference if you're facing a 20 stone man. Once you have control of a firearm,,nobody is going to argue with you,regardless of the size of the offender.

[lookout]

I personally would think that Sheila may possibly have threatened the family with a rifle before that fateful night judging by the varying reports/statements from the phone call which read " she's got the gun ".
The gun.-----------In other words,, to my mind, she's done that before,and this is why Nevill's had to phone Jeremy in past months. There's a big difference in saying " the gun " and " a gun ".