The silencer, hand swab, and scratch marks on the aga, Conspiracy...

[bob]

Bob,,,weight doesn't come into it when someone's running amok with a rifle. That's their protection and it doesn't make any difference if you're facing a 20 stone man. Once you have control of a firearm,,nobody is going to argue with you,regardless of the size of the offender.

Oh yes. Silly me.

[lookout]

Oh yes. Silly me.

That's alright,Bob.We're allowed to be silly every now and again. Though I don't expect that you're silly at all.

[bloggs and son]

Also,,Grahame,,,despite Nevill's build and size,,he still had to phone for Jeremy to help restrain Sheila when she was having one of her " bouts ". Why would a chap,the size of Nevill want assistance in calming down his daughter.? Lots of questions,,but I'm afraid,,,no answers.

That's because they had it planted in their minds to blame Jeremy.

[bloggs and son]

She was 5' 7.5" and weighed 8.5 stone, which gives her a BMI in the underweight category.

But her father still had to call Jeremy on occasions in order to help him restrain her.

[bloggs and son]

That's alright,Bob.We're allowed to be silly every now and again. Though I don't expect that you're silly at all.

Bob's not silly at all. He was just being silly when he said "silly me".

[Neil]

Hi Patti

I was reading through some back posts yesterday eve and clocked one of yours where the German manufactured gun was supposedly difficult to load on max bullets.  Can you imagine the Germans producing naff stuff?  All these things are tested to perfection before being manufactured.  Love them or hate them everything they do is done well.  Bet they win Euro 2012 too!

I spend a considerable amount of my working week, repairing German manufactured goods!
Admittedly, more time is spent on French products!

Oh, and by the way, England will win Euro 2012.......maybe!

[bloggs and son]

Hi Grahame

Are there records showing that Nevill had previously called JB for assistance?

I think someone posted something here. I think it was in one of the statements somewhere?

[Roch]

But her father still had to call Jeremy on occasions in order to help him restrain her.

Grahame, is this documented?  It must be worded differently if it is referred to in documentation (?)

[bloggs and son]

Grahame, is this documented?  It must be worded differently if it is referred to in documentation (?)

As I said before I think someone posted it somewhere. Not sure where? It might be a document or it may have been from a book?

[bloggs and son]

As I said before I think someone posted it somewhere. Not sure where? It might be a document or it may have been from a book?

I can't find where is is posted yet. Perhaps you should treat this as fiction until I can establish where it came from?

[Nuala]

I also go along with that too,Grahame.
In March 1985 when Sheila was admitted to St Andrews Hospital,she'd suffered a severe mental breakdown.   A friend was left traumatised after one of Sheila's violent outbursts.
Sheila had been taking cocaine quite frequently that year. She was released from hospital after just 3 weeks and her release raised concerns over the idea that Sheila was capable of murdering her children and had mentioned having suicidal thoughts.I would be interested in seeing her medical records from this particular time in her life,,,and would also be interested to see who'd voiced their concerns too.

Her medication was powerful stuff,and coupled with cannabis as well as cocaine,makes for a very volatile cocktail. If anyone reads about schizophrenia and cannabis,,it'll give you the clear answer as to who was responsible for the murders and also for Sheila's own suicide.

Her medication too,is worth reading about,,,its effects and what the results are if missed or suddenly reduced ( as Dr Ferguson had done,,and is a very dangerous move as it should be reduced gradually )
Anafranil.
Haloperidol.
Procyclidine.

A thought provoking post, Lookout. Can I ask where the information in the section highlighted above above comes from? Was Freddie the friend who was traumatised?

[-Harters-]

I'd like to now if the adjoining door was open when the raid team entered the main bedroom? It si bugging me...

Hi Patti, not that this is in any way conclusive, but I would suggest that the door was actually closed, the reason I say that is because of paragraph No. 143 of the 'Dicknson Report', which indicates the bible was possibly moved by the raid team opening that door when searching the house.

See here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=5963;image

Hi maggie. I am not 100% sure, but I think the adjoining room from the twins room was blocked with a dresser or something. The Box room in-between the main room and the twins room it where PC Jeaps might have seen a rifle leaning up against the window.  It would make sense if that door was open, it means it was used during the murders. If it was closed...then???  I think PC Collins would know...but his statement is missing....X

Anyway I am off to bed.....got to be up early, but I am trying to get the day off....

Again this also isn't in any way conclusive, but I would suggest that the box room was not blocked off by a dresser (I'm not sure where you have got that from? ). The reason I say that is because in paragraph No. 146 of the 'Dickinson Report' the twins room is described as leading from the main bedroom via a communicating box room, if the box room was blocked off, then I don't believe it could be described in this manner.

See here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=5964;image

________________________________________________________

The door to the box room in question can be seen on the floor plan located here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4069;image

And here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4070;image

Note the step between the box room and the twins room (maybe that is what you thought indicated it being blocked off? ), as it happens the 'UP ARROW' is the wrong way around, you actually step up into the box room from the twins room.

Another potential note of interest which I posted a couple of days ago but seems to have been deleted for some reason (or at least I can't find it any more),anyway, there is glazing either side of the twins room door from the landing, from about waist height up to the door head, this gives natural daylight to the landing when all the doors are closed. It's an original feature, although I suppose there could have been curtains blocking the view from the landing into the twins room, perhaps it's not of interest at all.

Also the sewing room door is glazed which also provides natural light to the landing. The sewing room is the small room between the main bedroom and Sheilas room.

[Patti]

Hi Patti, not that this is in any way conclusive, but I would suggest that the door was actually closed, the reason I say that is because of paragraph No. 143 of the 'Dicknson Report', which indicates the bible was possibly moved by the raid team opening that door when searching the house.


He only says it is possible. The report does not say it was closed nor open...

See here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=5963;image


Again this also isn't in any way conclusive, but I would suggest that the box room was not blocked off by a dresser (I'm not sure where you have got that from? ). The reason I say that is because in paragraph No. 146 of the 'Dickinson Report' the twins room is described as leading from the main bedroom via a communicating box room, if the box room was blocked off, then I don't believe it could be described in this manner.

Thank you for that. I had noticed on the plans that a direct line was drawn across the tread of the doorway and I have read it somewhere about a piece of furniture in front of it, it could be from Colin's book...

If you look at the plans it clearly looks like the door is blocked of....it has a direct line

See here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=5964;image

________________________________________________________

The door to the box room in question can be seen on the floor plan located here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4069;image

And here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4070;image

Note the step between the box room and the twins room (maybe that is what you thought indicated it being blocked off? ), as it happens the 'UP ARROW' is the wrong way around, you actually step up into the box room from the twins room. Aww It is a step...thank you again.

Another potential note of interest which I posted a couple of days ago but seems to have been deleted for some reason (or at least I can't find it any more),anyway, there is glazing either side of the twins room door from the landing, from about waist height up to the door head, this gives natural daylight to the landing when all the doors are closed. It's an original feature, although I suppose there could have been curtains blocking the view from the landing into the twins room, perhaps it's not of interest at all.

To me this is interesting. Maybe the house had an extension at some point and was left in for that purpose... I'd be interested to know if there were curtains there? This might also be significant, because the twins bedroom light might not have been on at the time of the murders. The lights they could have seen from outside, could have been from the corridor/landing lights...

Also the sewing room door is glazed which also provides natural light to the landing. The sewing room is the small room between the main bedroom and Sheilas room. Yep I know that...Thank you...

Thank you Hartley 

I think it is important to know if that door was open Hartley. For it tells us it was being used during the time of the murders. 

[-Harters-]

Thank you Hartley 

I think it is important to know if that door was open Hartley. For it tells us it was being used during the time of the murders. 

No worries. 

For the reasons given above, I think it was closed, also that the bible is on top of blood stains on the carpet which do not seem to match the stains on the bible. But as you say, it's as much of a guess as anything else.

Collins statement may clear it up, you are right, feel free to ask Mike for it, he doesn't seem to take my requests. 

[Patti]

No worries. 

For the reasons given above, I think it was closed, also that the bible is on top of blood stains on the carpet which do not seem to match the stains on the bible. But as you say, it's as much of a guess as anything else.

Collins statement may clear it up, you are right, feel free to ask Mike for it, he doesn't seem to take my requests. 

Hi There.

In all fairness we can't assume it was open or closed.  It could well answer the fact as to why Sheila had clean feet....for even if she had walked through the main bedroom door, to the other side of the bedroom, surely it would have been likely she would have got blood on her feet from the spatter of blood from her mother.

The bible....well, she was shot twice Hartley. The blood on the floor could be from the 1st shot.  If you look closely at the bible when it opens up, there is what I would call an impression matching on both sides...again this could have been from the first shot, but it is clear the bible was closed whilst the blood on the pages were still wet....

I'd also like to see the stains underneath the bible....There appears to be a distinctive mark...as if something had rested on the carpet...could be the gun, you know the bit that sticks out at the end of the muzzle....all guess work....but all possibilities..

Yes let's have the statement from Collins....