Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF

[Nuala]

Just read something very interesting in the book by Scott Lomax.  Its about loading the 10th bullet into the magazine.  It appears that Lomax contacted the makers of the gun and they had no reports or feedback that the 10th bullet was harder to load than the 1st one.  The German company go one step further in saying that all their guns are fully tested and sold world wide and they have never had a complaint about loading the magazine. 

If the jury had known this?

Excellent point. Thank you for reminding us of this, Patti!

[Patti]

Hi Keira/Grahame

It makes you wonder if the defence did anything? I suppose it was 1986!

I have been reading up on the Ipswich murders...the Jury went to his house...in fact the jury was very involved.

There was none of this in regards JB's case.  The only thing that springs to mind was the woman who demonstrated the rifle with the moderator on it.   

[Patti]

He also outlines the fact that Taff Jones fell off a STEP LADDER....and died of injuries to head?  Would a fall from such a short height cause such head injuries..

I thought he was on a long ladder...painting the house outside. 

[Nuala]

Hi Keira/Grahame

It makes you wonder if the defence did anything? I suppose it was 1986!

I have been reading up on the Ipswich murders...the Jury went to his house...in fact the jury was very involved.

There was none of this in regards JB's case.  The only thing that springs to mind was the woman who demonstrated the rifle with the moderator on it.   

I could cry when I read about the deficiencies of Jeremy's defence, Patti. So much evidence went unexamined, unmentioned and unchallenged.

Some of the things that Rivlin said during his speeches and cross examinations of witnesses make me wince.

What on earth was he thinking of? A law student might have made a better job of defending Jeremy.

This ought to be grounds for an Appeal in itself.

[ajross]

He also outlines the fact that Taff Jones fell off a STEP LADDER....and died of injuries to head?  Would a fall from such a short height cause such head injuries..

I thought he was on a long ladder...painting the house outside. 

A chap i knew was killed with a relatively tame, drunken puch to the head, it was banging his head on the floor that did it so I would suggest that yes, it could have killed him. Although it stills seems odd that he died but i'm sure it must have been a coincidence.

[Bridget]

Just read something very interesting in the book by Scott Lomax.  Its about loading the 10th bullet into the magazine.  It appears that Lomax contacted the makers of the gun and they had no reports or feedback that the 10th bullet was harder to load than the 1st one.  The German company go one step further in saying that all their guns are fully tested and sold world wide and they have never had a complaint about loading the magazine. 

If the jury had known this?

I thought the jury were given the chance to try for themselves weren't they?

[Patti]

I could cry when I read about the deficiencies of Jeremy's defence, Patti. So much evidence went unexamined, unmentioned and unchallenged.

Some of the things that Rivlin said during his speeches and cross examinations of witnesses make me wince.

What on earth was he thinking of? A law student might have made a better job of defending Jeremy.

This ought to be grounds for an Appeal in itself.

I agree Keira....The trial was shambles! All the evidence was provided by the relatives....Not one bit of evidence came from the police....It makes me grumpy 

[ajross]

It may or may not be interesting of me to keep giving these updates but the beauty of a forum is that you can all choose to ignore me.

I am now up to chapter 16 of Wilkes' book and I have to think that if JB had killed himself in prison and this book was left as the only real document for me to decide what I thought of the case I would certainly suspect him of killing his family. Although it is striking how it all seems to be down in part to the greed/worry of the family members and the personal vendetta and obsession of one police officer. I almost get the feeling that Stan Jones painted himself into such a corner that he either convinced everybody else of JBs guilt or risked being completely discredited and ruining his career. How did his career turn out in light of this case?

[Patti]

It may or may not be interesting of me to keep giving these updates but the beauty of a forum is that you can all choose to ignore me.

I am now up to chapter 16 of Wilkes' book and I have to think that if JB had killed himself in prison and this book was left as the only real document for me to decide what I thought of the case I would certainly suspect him of killing his family. Although it is striking how it all seems to be down in part to the greed/worry of the family members and the personal vendetta and obsession of one police officer. I almost get the feeling that Stan Jones painted himself into such a corner that he either convinced everybody else of JBs guilt or risked being completely discredited and ruining his career. How did his career turn out in light of this case?

Hi agross, I wont ignore you and if I have then I am sorry.

So regarding your comment about the family members must signify that you are slightly unsure? If if doubt...and you was a juror what would you do?  I mean based on the evidence that you know.

[tyler]

It may or may not be interesting of me to keep giving these updates but the beauty of a forum is that you can all choose to ignore me.

I am now up to chapter 16 of Wilkes' book and I have to think that if JB had killed himself in prison and this book was left as the only real document for me to decide what I thought of the case I would certainly suspect him of killing his family. Although it is striking how it all seems to be down in part to the greed/worry of the family members and the personal vendetta and obsession of one police officer. I almost get the feeling that Stan Jones painted himself into such a corner that he either convinced everybody else of JBs guilt or risked being completely discredited and ruining his career. How did his career turn out in light of this case?

Hi ajross............I think that Wilkes book is pretty much the best factual book out there,but tends to follow the "official" line?I think that is why the "antis" tend to constantly quote this book as gospel.Problem is,the book is now very outdated and many new things have come to light since.I feel that Wilkes was fairly influenced by the relatives (whom he interviewed for the book)and that makes it a little one sided.imo.

[Patti]

I must get that book after I have read Scott Lomax's book.

[ajross]

Hi ajross............I think that Wilkes book is pretty much the best factual book out there,but tends to follow the "official" line?I think that is why the "antis" tend to constantly quote this book as gospel.Problem is,the book is now very outdated and many new things have come to light since.I feel that Wilkes was fairly influenced by the relatives (whom he interviewed for the book)and that makes it a little one sided.imo.

Hello Tyler - very true, he seems to be very influenced by the relatives and sides a lot with Stan Jones and paints a very nasty picture of the treatment of Julie Mugford, his tone may change as I work through it but I'm finding the book to be a little all over the place. I could easily sit here now and write a book 'quoting' conversations and interviews without ever really attributing these quotes. The language and detail of the quotes tends to be a little sensational but also very specific, suggesting individual nuances in speech.

[Patti]

I know I keep going on, but after reading about the Ipswich murders I noted that Steve Wright appealed and lost his appeal..he tried again, but withdrew it....

He is guilty, his DNA was found....So here we have a guilty person backing down, where as Jeremy Bamber has never done this...

[ajross]

Hi agross, I wont ignore you and if I have then I am sorry.

So regarding your comment about the family members must signify that you are slightly unsure? If if doubt...and you was a juror what would you do?  I mean based on the evidence that you know.

Hello Patti, I don't want to be inconsistent or unfair so I feel I should mention the missing spelling of my name, I picked Susan up on this and while I apologised and said I had overreacted I feel I should mention it as I did before but, as Susan, I am sure it was unintentional. Regarding your question, I think that with the press coverage of the time and Wilkes' book I would think him guilty (with what I've read so far) or deserving of punishment for being a thoroughly horrible character. With what I know and the information I have read I could say that this book could still lead me to doubt my own opinion in some way.

[Patti]

Hello Patti, I don't want to be inconsistent or unfair so I feel I should mention the missing spelling of my name, I picked Susan up on this and while I apologised and said I had overreacted I feel I should mention it as I did before but, as Susan, I am sure it was unintentional. Regarding your question, I think that with the press coverage of the time and Wilkes' book I would think him guilty (with what I've read so far) or deserving of punishment for being a thoroughly horrible character. With what I know and the information I have read I could say that this book could still lead me to doubt my own opinion in some way.

Oh I am sorry, can I call you AJ...there are so many unusual names on here...

In regards to thinking he is guilty...how can you state this:

Although it is striking how it all seems to be down in part to the greed/worry of the family members and the personal vendetta and obsession of one police officer.


AJ I don't believe in all I read...I look at the evidence and forensic science to speak to me...

Can you tell me what evidence you have to support that fact you feel JB is guilty.....

I believe in fairness and try disregard JB'S arrogance, for that is not a sign of anyone being guilty of murder...