Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF

[Patti]

Odd that, wasn't it?

Surely he would have remembered her 27th birthday...Or was she 26 or 28....No, she was 28 she was born in 1957...

I'm thinking of the logs here Keira...one says 26, the other says 27 and here we have her ex husband saying she was 28...

[Jane]

No you're not Maggie. I think June comes in for a lot of stick that she doesn't deserve. We have very reliable reports that she was a very kind and generous person. We can't always blame the sins of the children on their parents.

Grahame, none of us are one dimentional. My own mother supported the church, looked after aging relatives, loved animals, took in waifs and strays, clothed and fed them. Everybody said what a kind and generous person she was.

You are correct in your assertion that parents can't ALWAYS be held responsible for childrens' behaviour, however they can't NOT be a contributory factor.

[bloggs and son]

Grahame, none of us are one dimentional. My own mother supported the church, looked after aging relatives, loved animals, took in waifs and strays, clothed and fed them. Everybody said what a kind and generous person she was.

You are correct in your assertion that parents can't ALWAYS be held responsible for childrens' behaviour, however they can't NOT be a contributory factor.

Yes I agree April. But if you follow that thinking to its logical conclusion you'd be blaming Adam and Eve?.............erm..... ......Just a minute.... It was all their fault in the first place.

[maggie]

Yes I agree April. But if you follow that thinking to its logical conclusion you'd be blaming Adam and Eve?.............erm..... ......Just a minute.... It was all their fault in the first place.

But Jeremy said Sheila was a happy and contented child who only became disturbed in her teens.  Schizophrenia can develop from early teenage years although most females develop it slightly later than boys. The symptoms could have been showing from puberty and causing her all sorts of problems not at that time recognised as illness but more as difficult or bizarre behaviour.  The sort of behaviour which may have caused her to be expelled from two schools for disinterest and later from jobs.  She was probably incapable of holding down any sort of job.  Colin blamed June for Sheila's problems but we don't know if that was the whole truth, her depression and withdrawal from the world are both symptoms of schizophrenia.

[SUMMER]

Grahame, none of us are one dimentional. My own mother supported the church, looked after aging relatives, loved animals, took in waifs and strays, clothed and fed them. Everybody said what a kind and generous person she was.

You are correct in your assertion that parents can't ALWAYS be held responsible for childrens' behaviour, however they can't NOT be a contributory factor.

Well april, I have had some experience with my grown up only daughters depression and mood swings over the previous two years and all I can say is there are days, like today, when all I want to do is stay away from it all.
It's exhausting, demoralizing and deeply upsetting to be verbally attacked by a grown up child of your own because they are depressed.
Yes, she would love to blame me for all her mistakes because then she doesn't have to accept responsibility for her own actions.
It is hard to put into words how emotionally exhausting dealing with her can be.
One wrong word, and world war three starts to break out.
The worry is indescribable. Help is non-existant.
In the end all I can do is hope for the best. For better things for her.
On good days, if I see her, I try to give constructive advice, if she is in the mood to listen, but on bad days I feel like she is verbally using me as a punch bag because she is unhappy.
To be honest with you that is a trait she has shown since she was about 14 and I actually went to
Social Services and reported to them that I was an abused parent by my own child!
Now that is something that is only occasionally discussed, parents who are abused by their own child and usually involves male children hitting out at their mothers.
I have two grown up sons and all of my grown-up kids live in their own places.
Even recently, my youngest son and my daughter were  visiting me at the same time and I said something perfectly innocently to my daughter and she started to verbally attack me.
Luckily her brother stopped her and said, "I HAVE LISTENED TO EVERY WORD THAT MUM SAID AND SHE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING TO MAKE YOU ANGRY OR DEFENSIVE."
That stopped her in her tracks.
Summer

[maggie]

That is so true Summer, I have a friend in a similar situation and there's no help from anywhere.  In this particular case the grown up daughter still lives with her mother and bullies her and makes her life a misery.

[Nuala]

Poor you, Summer. Can I ask how old your daughter is and how often she verbally attacks you in this way? Do you get on alright between the rows?

[Patti]

But Jeremy said Sheila was a happy and contented child who only became disturbed in her teens.  Schizophrenia can develop from early teenage years although most females develop it slightly later than boys. The symptoms could have been showing from puberty and causing her all sorts of problems not at that time recognised as illness but more as difficult or bizarre behaviour.  The sort of behaviour which may have caused her to be expelled from two schools for disinterest and later from jobs.  She was probably incapable of holding down any sort of job.  Colin blamed June for Sheila's problems but we don't know if that was the whole truth, her depression and withdrawal from the world are both symptoms of schizophrenia.

Hi maggie

I agree with what you are saying.  From what I have read from Jeremy and Sheila's cousin...Her illness started when she met Colin...I don't mean to disrespect Colin in any way....

From the moment she had her abortion, she started to feel unwell in her self.... Colin also talks about her when she went to Japan for a month doing some modeling...She came back thin and gaunt looking...and had written him a letter and asked him to make her an appointment for when she got back...she knew something was happening to her....she was becoming alienated from the others that she was working with.....I'd best stop quoting from this book...

[Nuala]

Hi maggie

I agree with what you are saying.  From what I have read from Jeremy and Sheila's cousin...Her illness started when she met Colin...I don't mean to disrespect Colin in any way....

From the moment she had her abortion, she started to feel unwell in her self.... Colin also talks about her when she went to Japan for a month doing some modeling...She came back thin and gaunt looking...and had written him a letter and asked him to make her an appointment for when she got back...she knew something was happening to her....she was becoming alienated from the others that she was working with.....I'd best stop quoting from this book...

No, Patti, you carry on quoting, I'm the same with the Claire Powell book at present because this is fresh in my mind. We can draw some useful insights from these books as each one touches on various aspects of the case that the others don't cover

[Bridget]

Plus it saves me buying them.

[SUMMER]

That is so true Summer, I have a friend in a similar situation and there's no help from anywhere.  In this particular case the grown up daughter still lives with her mother and bullies her and makes her life a misery.

maggie, my daughter, who, by the way, is 34 now, lived with me temporarily for 7 weeks very recently.
I love this girl very much, but the strain, probably for both of us, was unbelievable.
I want to help her but I am not a Psychologist - I am  graduate in Sociology -  and have studied Law and Psychology too during my degree - but I am firstly far too close to her to be completely impartial and too tired of it all as well!
Summer

[Patti]

Well april, I have had some experience with my grown up only daughters depression and mood swings over the previous two years and all I can say is there are days, like today, when all I want to do is stay away from it all.
It's exhausting, demoralizing and deeply upsetting to be verbally attacked by a grown up child of your own because they are depressed.
Yes, she would love to blame me for all her mistakes because then she doesn't have to accept responsibility for her own actions.
It is hard to put into words how emotionally exhausting dealing with her can be.
One wrong word, and world war three starts to break out.
The worry is indescribable. Help is non-existant.
In the end all I can do is hope for the best. For better things for her.
On good days, if I see her, I try to give constructive advice, if she is in the mood to listen, but on bad days I feel like she is verbally using me as a punch bag because she is unhappy.
To be honest with you that is a trait she has shown since she was about 14 and I actually went to
Social Services and reported to them that I was an abused parent by my own child!
Now that is something that is only occasionally discussed, parents who are abused by their own child and usually involves male children hitting out at their mothers.
I have two grown up sons and all of my grown-up kids live in their own places.
Even recently, my youngest son and my daughter were  visiting me at the same time and I said something perfectly innocently to my daughter and she started to verbally attack me.
Luckily her brother stopped her and said, "I HAVE LISTENED TO EVERY WORD THAT MUM SAID AND SHE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING TO MAKE YOU ANGRY OR DEFENSIVE."
That stopped her in her tracks.
Summer

Hi Summer

Sometimes we as parents need to back off a bit and allow our children to grow. Most of the arguments I have had with my children have been in the home.

A friend of mine told me that is where the problem is....I asked her what she meant and she told me that I needed to allow my children their own space to grow up...and, that sometimes our opinions are not what they want to hear......

She told me combat this by taking some quality time with one of them outside the home....away from the comfort zone.  I took my daughter out for an evening meal....We got dressed up and off we went.  For once in my life I listened to what she had to say and, I felt sorry that I had judged because and, tried to turn her into a person she did not want to be...The cruelest thing I realised was that I hated her father and saw him in her....and, for the past 16 years we have never had a cross word....I am so proud of her, she is a lovely mother of 4. She is the most caring and thoughtful person I have ever met in my life....She would give you the souls of her shoes.....She is strong and beautiful and she is marrying her childhood sweetheart of 16 years........

Yes, my daughter got pregnant 16 years ago....she was 16. I am so sorry I judged her.

So Summer, maybe it might help if you went out with your daughter for a coffee or something....It might help...

[SUMMER]

Poor you, Summer. Can I ask how old your daughter is and how often she verbally attacks you in this way? Do you get on alright between the rows?

Keira, my daughter is 34 and we get into these verbal battles very frequently and if we are alone then it is just dreadful.
However, in between these "incidents" we are actually the best of friends and she is highly protective of both myself and her two brothers! (They are 31 and 35.) She also fights with them too, in a similar pattern!
None of it makes sense!
But there is definately something wrong and it leaves me with a terrific sense of helplessness to do anything about the situation.
Luckily we have managed to get her another place to live so the tension has gone down a lot for all of us.
Summer

[maggie]

maggie, my daughter, who, by the way, is 34 now, lived with me temporarily for 7 weeks very recently.
I love this girl very much, but the strain, probably for both of us, was unbelievable.
I want to help her but I am not a Psychologist - I am  graduate in Sociology -  and have studied Law and Psychology too during my degree - but I am firstly far too close to her to be completely impartial and too tired of it all as well!
Summer

Yes, I understand summer, is she on medication? One of my daughters suffers chronically from depression but anti depressants sort her out.  She takes them all the time.

[SUMMER]

Hi Summer

Sometimes we as parents need to back off a bit and allow our children to grow. Most of the arguments I have had with my children have been in the home.

A friend of mine told me that is where the problem is....I asked her what she meant and she told me that I needed to allow my children their own space to grow up...and, that sometimes our opinions are not what they want to hear......

She told me combat this by taking some quality time with one of them outside the home....away from the comfort zone.  I took my daughter out for an evening meal....We got dressed up and off we went.  For once in my life I listened to what she had to say and, I felt sorry that I had judged because and, tried to turn her into a person she did not want to be...The cruelest thing I realised was that I hated her father and saw him in her....and, for the past 16 years we have never had a cross word....I am so proud of her, she is a lovely mother of 4. She is the most caring and thoughtful person I have ever met in my life....She would give you the souls of her shoes.....She is strong and beautiful and she is marrying her childhood sweetheart of 16 years........

Yes, my daughter got pregnant 16 years ago....she was 16. I am so sorry I judged her.

So Summer, maybe it might help if you went out with your daughter for a coffee or something....It might help...

Patti, thank you for your kind and thoughtful post.
My daughter has lived away from home since she was 16.
At her request, I may add.
We do go out for Coffee, etc and have lovely times together.
But there is the light side and then there is the dark side and it is impossible to predict which "side" of my daughter is going to come out to play! (Particularly over the previous 2 years since she began suffering with depression.)
Over the years its been a roller coaster.
She has no children as her relationships have not worked out.
She is still lovely looking, a real head turner, because she won't eat enough most of the time!
Summer