Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF

[mertol22]

Hi Maggie

I remember AE saying that when Grannie S was told about the deaths...She sat up and said " It's the devil at work, or its the devils work" So it makes you wonder...

Just enjoying an ice cream...mmmmm

So all this typing is making you hot i see nothing like a ice cream to cool things down you could finish off with a glass of chardo on me if you want.

[Jane]

Hi Patti. There are documents about the Roman Empire that are still locked away in the British Library and can only be viewed by special appointment because they are considered to be so corrupt. It wasn't just ordinary sex we are talking about. But obscene forms of bestiality and paedophilia that even todays society would see as most obscene. Another thing that would happen is that if a couple had a baby and it was a girl child they would think nothing of abandoning that child on the city rubbish tip. Terrible things would take place during the last days of the Roman Empire. I think if you ever knew the reality of the situation then today's society would seem very mild with its crime and murders and general corruption compared to the Roman Empire. And it was these horrors that the apostle Paul was referring to in his letter to the Roman Christians.

Sex at its' most basic and the repercussions and ramifications. At what point did we romanticize it? Where started the myths which surround it? At what point did sex become equated with love? At its best it can be so beautiful that it defies description, at its most basic it is little more than a physical exercise to release tension or a vehicle for enabling the vilest fantasies........

.......but one thing I feel is certain, those who come from families where they feel themselves to have been unloved and ignored, who have not lived up to what was expected of them, who have not experienced hugs and praise, will see it as love. They will glow with the positive attention they are experiencing, perhaps for the first time. They may acually experience feeling loved for the first time and if a modern girl feels something of, pardon the pun, an anticlimax afterwards, spare a thought for the Victorian miss who knew NOTHING and trembled when hands brushed. They are likely to go from one sad experience to another, each new one promising something it fails to deliver and each failure making her feel more unlovable. Travel far enough down that road and it could lead to those things at the dark heart of the Roman Empire.

[Jane]

That is so true April, young children are so vulnerable and trusting, its hard to believe how cruel people can be to them, often unwittingly and without thought.  However, its pretty obvious by her behaviour that June was an abused child herself. It takes great courage to have therapy for damage caused in childhood, also to recognise that maybe it's necessary.  June's generation and class of the stiff upper lip would never have recognised the foundations of her illness.

Nor are they willing to expose what those parents have done, Maggie, especially when those parents are held, by others in high regard, and adoptive parents are.....and then there's the fear of not being believed. I was in my mid forties before I no longer cared if, or not, I was believed. It was both an enormous relief and the best thing I have ever done for myself.

[lookout]

" In 1985,the public and the police were reluctant to believe that a young mother could brutally murder her family.     Today,reports of women committing violent crime,including murdering their children before attempting/committing suicide are well documented through the media.     Had Jeremy Bmber's trial taken place today and had the jury been made aware of all the research and the links established between cannabis and schizophrenia,then an entirely different conclusion would surely have been reached.
If the advances made with understanding schizophrenia and its treatment had been available to Sheila Caffell back in 1985,it is possible that she would be alive today.

She was,after all,as much a victim as Jeremy Bamber is."

[maggie]

" In 1985,the public and the police were reluctant to believe that a young mother could brutally murder her family.     Today,reports of women committing violent crime,including murdering their children before attempting/committing suicide are well documented through the media.     Had Jeremy Bmber's trial taken place today and had the jury been made aware of all the research and the links established between cannabis and schizophrenia,then an entirely different conclusion would surely have been reached.
If the advances made with understanding schizophrenia and its treatment had been available to Sheila Caffell back in 1985,it is possible that she would be alive today.

She was,after all,as much a victim as Jeremy Bamber is."

I agree completely with that statement lookout.

[maggie]

Nor are they willing to expose what those parents have done, Maggie, especially when those parents are held, by others in high regard, and adoptive parents are.....and then there's the fear of not being believed. I was in my mid forties before I no longer cared if, or not, I was believed. It was both an enormous relief and the best thing I have ever done for myself.

I would like to point out at this point april, that there are many, many happy and complete families which include adopted children.  As a mother of adopted children, I have to quite often reassure myself that I am not any of these things you write about, neither are thousands of other adoptees or their children. 
I'm not in anyway trying to undermine your'e argument, and I do sympathise with and what you suffered, just wanted to point out adoption can be good.  It was the best thing that ever happened to me.  Of course, my children ideally should have been with there natural familes but this wasn't ever to be.

[Jane]

Colin's letter to Nevill asking him to stop June doing to the twins what she did to Sheila makes it clear that Colin blamed June, June's crazy, obsessive religious beliefs and her obsession with the devil for Sheila's mental illness.

Keira, if we transpose "rigid" for "obsessive" it gives another hold on June's views on religion. I feel saddened by the thought of Sheila running, distressed from the Greek monestry, a place where I've never failed to find solace, even when I haven't felt in need of it!!!!! I wonder if, to June, the only acceptable form of religion was her own, the one accepted by the Establishment and having found Sheila had visited an Orthodox monestry, regaled her with stories of how they were aligned to the Devil, which if Sheila had ever found peace there, would have reinforced her mother's assertion that she was the Devil's child.

It also occurs to me to ask what may June have been seeking atonement for to display such overt religiosity? Those I know who are committed Christians are generally happy, and are sustained by their faith. Their inner calm makes them a joy to be with. I feel the same could not have been said of June.

[mertol22]

when i visit a convent i go to the 1st night is special i sleep like a log above you in every room a crucifix yet i dont believe in god now june was all wrong she prevented sheila from the freedom of choice now i can see why jeremy to some is viewed as a bad apple was he ?

[Jane]

I would like to point out at this point april, that there are many, many happy and complete families which include adopted children.  As a mother of adopted children, I have to quite often reassure myself that I am not any of these things you write about, neither are thousands of other adoptees or their children. 
I'm not in anyway trying to undermine your'e argument, and I do sympathise with and what you suffered, just wanted to point out adoption can be good.  It was the best thing that ever happened to me.  Of course, my children ideally should have been with there natural familes but this wasn't ever to be.

Maggie, please forgive me. I do run on a bit, I know. I DO know that adoptions like mine and Sheila's are, thankfully VERY rare and I'm delighted for you, and your children, that it has been such a wonderful experience for you. It is as it should be and I send you love and best wishes for your ongoing happiness. xx

[maggie]

Keira, if we transpose "rigid" for "obsessive" it gives another hold on June's views on religion. I feel saddened by the thought of Sheila running, distressed from the Greek monestry, a place where I've never failed to find solace, even when I haven't felt in need of it!!!!! I wonder if, to June, the only acceptable form of religion was her own, the one accepted by the Establishment and having found Sheila had visited an Orthodox monestry, regaled her with stories of how they were aligned to the Devil, which if Sheila had ever found peace there, would have reinforced her mother's assertion that she was the Devil's child.

It also occurs to me to ask what may June have been seeking atonement for to display such overt religiosity? Those I know who are committed Christians are generally happy, and are sustained by their faith. Their inner calm makes them a joy to be with. I feel the same could not have been said of June.

Am I the only person who thinks June was a damaged person and was probably abused, in the same way she abused Sheila, when she was a child.  Wasn't she part of the tragedy rather than just the cause?

[Patti]

They were both allowed to leave home though, before either of them reached 18. Maybe they were both eager to leave or may have been persuaded...Also the parents bought them both a home. It's quite puzzling at times. 

[maggie]

Maggie, please forgive me. I do run on a bit, I know. I DO know that adoptions like mine and Sheila's are, thankfully VERY rare and I'm delighted for you, and your children, that it has been such a wonderful experience for you. It is as it should be and I send you love and best wishes for your ongoing happiness. xx

Thank you april, I had a life threatening illness in my 20s which left me unable to ever have children. It was so hard to accept and it took us 9 years before we had the opportunity to adopt. I fell in love with my babies and loved them as least as much as I could have loved my own.  I consider myself a very lucky person to have had the whole experience. Some people don't quite understand that you can completely love a child not of your blood but I assure everyone that you can.

[Jane]

Am I the only person who thinks June was a damaged person and was probably abused, in the same way she abused Sheila, when she was a child.  Wasn't she part of the tragedy rather than just the cause?

Absolutely not, Maggie. Given that Granny Speakman made the statement about the tragedy being "the Devil's work,"it seems apparent that he had a place in their family life and  his work was known to them!! I think it very likely that June suffered some form of abuse.

[Jane]

Thank you april, I had a life threatening illness in my 20s which left me unable to ever have children. It was so hard to accept and it took us 9 years before we had the opportunity to adopt. I fell in love with my babies and loved them as least as much as I could have loved my own.  I consider myself a very lucky person to have had the whole experience. Some people don't quite understand that you can completely love a child not of your blood but I assure everyone that you can.

Maggie, I can't express the joy that reading your reply gave me. I'm still trying to type through tears!!!!! xx

[maggie]

Absolutely not, Maggie. Given that Granny Speakman made the statement about the tragedy being "the Devil's work,"it seems apparent that he had a place in their family life and  his work was known to them!! I think it very likely that June suffered some form of abuse.

She found showing affection impossible, apart from a stuffed toy on the bed and maybe Crispy, I just wonder that she may have desperately wanted to hug her daughter but quite simply didn't know how to.  I think June's life was also a tragedy, belonging to the English upper classes at that time was more of a curse than anything I should think.