Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF

[Nuala]

I'm not quite sure that the Bible is obsessed with sex in parts? They in those days when Israel came out of Egypt lead by Moses were themselves, as todays society is obsessed with sex and that is what Moses was addressing in those parts in order control man's obsession. The Israelites were to be entirely different from the nations around them and that was how those nations carried on. You can see this also if these sex obsessions were not controlled that society soon fell again and again into these obsessions. One just has to look at the Roman Empire to illustrate this.
I shouldn't think that June was any more a religious fanatic than quite a few other church goers. In fact there was a time when those who didn't conform to Christian values were seen as the fanatics. Fanaticism is always that which goes against what is considered the norm at the time. I think perhaps it might be a bit unfair to call June a religious fanatic just because she saw Colin as a threat to the daughter she brought up and of course Colin would see her praying with Sheila's boys every night as fanatical. Because that was something he didn't agree with and saw it as her ramming religion down their throats rather than him ramming his ideas down their throats. In fact I've met atheists who are just as fanatical as society counts Christians to be and just can't see the fact that they too could be charged with ramming their own form of atheism down their children's throats.

I do see June as a religious fanatic because she filled Sheila's mind with a poisonous belief that the devil was controlling her. When June caught Sheila, who was at the time a young teenager, having sex with a young farm hand, did June ever blame herself?

Any loving and perceptive parent would question the upbringing they had given a child who begins to get into trouble in this manner. Yet, June never appears to have questioned herself or Sheila's upbringing as far as I can see. Not once does June seemed to have blamed herself and the dysfunctional, cold and unaffectionate upbringing that she had given Sheila.

Who did June blame? She blamed Sheila. June frogmarched Sheila back to the house while ranting and raving at Sheila that she was the devil's child.

AE blamed June's horrible smearing of Sheila with this 'devil's child' slur as the root of Sheila's problems.

[mertol22]

And again the fatal injuries to june speak volumes to me.

[bloggs and son]

I think sex is a lovely thing to have. I think it is more open in society today and, talked about more. To hide or to preach that sex should be forbidden, must have an effect on today's modern child.

Human beings have had sex since the beginning of time....Grahme mentioned the Roman Empire. Bothers married sisters and all the family had sex...with each other, it was deemed to be a normal way of life.

It's modern society that we live in today that makes the scene of incest deplorable and it is my eyes. But, had I lived in the times of the Roma Empire, my thoughts might be very different.

Hi Patti. There are documents about the Roman Empire that are still locked away in the British Library and can only be viewed by special appointment because they are considered to be so corrupt. It wasn't just ordinary sex we are talking about. But obscene forms of bestiality and paedophilia that even todays society would see as most obscene. Another thing that would happen is that if a couple had a baby and it was a girl child they would think nothing of abandoning that child on the city rubbish tip. Terrible things would take place during the last days of the Roman Empire. I think if you ever knew the reality of the situation then today's society would seem very mild with its crime and murders and general corruption compared to the Roman Empire. And it was these horrors that the apostle Paul was referring to in his letter to the Roman Christians.

[Nuala]

And what did Sheila say when June hurled this horrible abuse at her, that Sheila was the devil's child?

Poor little Sheila said, yes, you're right, mum, I am the devil's child.

[Nuala]

When June told Sheila that she was the devil's child she emotionally abused Sheila. That abuse had a lasting and devastating impact on Sheila throughout her short life.

[Jane]

I shouldn't think that June was any more a religious fanatic than quite a few other church goers. In fact there was a time when those who didn't conform to Christian values were seen as the fanatics. Fanaticism is always that which goes against what is considered the norm at the time. I think perhaps it might be a bit unfair to call June a religious fanatic just because she saw Colin as a threat to the daughter she brought up and of course Colin would see her praying with Sheila's boys every night as fanatical. Because that was something he didn't agree with and saw it as her ramming religion down their throats rather than him ramming his ideas down their throats. In fact I've met atheists who are just as fanatical as society counts Christians to be and just can't see the fact that they too could be charged with ramming their own form of atheism down their children's throats.

Grahame, I think the twin' depiction of WHF tells its' own story. I think they had probably had the wits terrified out of them by the praying routine, and which child wouldn't given that June's God seems to be unforgiving, judgemental, quick to anger, even quicker to mete out punisment. A God it was almost impossible to please. A God it was impossible for them to trust to keep them safe. An ogre from a fairy story. The twins, like their mother must surely have lived in fear of Him.

I know people who are committed Christians and I feel spiritually uplifted by them. I suspect I would not have felt the same about June. I feel she would have managed to convey, albeit, subtley, that one didn't quite live up to expectations.

[Jane]

Hi april.....I see you have similar circumstances when you were growing up...What are your feeling towards your parents now? Sorry for asking

One word, Patti. FREE!!!!!!.........but in the moments I think/talk about it I am angry on behalf of the child she inflicted such psychological cruelty on and excused it as being a joke. The father I adored could have done more to protect me, but like Nevill, I suspect it was anything for a quiet life. However, I want to make it very clear that I'm no longer that child, I'm an entirely OTHER person. I've put years of work into it and I like who I am............but God help anyone who inflicts cruelty and injustice on children!!!!!!!

[maggie]

Yes I agree and she probably thought that Colin Caffell was a bad influence on her?

In the mid seventies, general attitudes towards sex outside marriage and illegitimate babies were only beginning to change.  A mother didn't need to be religious or totally controlling to want to protect their daughters from situations which made women's lives very difficult.  Women were still trying to gain equality in society.

[maggie]

Colin didn't like the way she treated Sheila....He says, that whenever she had spent time with her mother, she felt
depressed and upset. All Sheila wanted from her mother was to feel loved and she could not understand why other
mothers hugged their children and gave them birthday parties....Sheila never had this, she never invited friends home.

When Sheila had the twins....and the family came to see her...Colin's mum was excited about the twins and hugged
Sheila and made a fuss of her....he says June stood there with arms by her side and said who's a clever girl then...Not once
did she put her arms around her or touch the babies.....This must have hurt Sheila...

June may have had old fashioned views, of which I fully respect....but she also had the inability to hug her children.

Colin said Sheila could not understand it.

Maybe poor old june had never been hugged.  Do we know what her childhood was like?  Behviour is passed from generation to generation xxxx

[Jane]

I've not so far said it but it may help to clarify what I've been attempting to say. Children see parental figures as being all powerful. They believe every word adults say. They don't understand sarcasm or adult nuances in speech. Tell a child "it's raining cats and dogs" and that's what it will expect to see. I recall shedding tears because a house was going to be stonedashed (think about the references to stonedashing in the Bible) I wondered what they had done that was so wrong and where they would go. I'd like to believe that if people realized how easy it is to "bend" the mind of an impressionable child, they would take better care, but sadly, there are always those who feel powerless in their own lives and seek to gain power over others. In children, they find the perfect opportunity.

[Jane]

Quote from april:  One of my earliest memories is of being put to bed on a very cold night  and wanting to tuck my hands under the covers. My mother removed them and placed them on the eiderdown, so I put them back. She pulled out my hands and smacked them, tucked the covers in so tightly that I couldn't move and dared me, under threat, to do it again.

Bless...I want to give you a big hug.  :'(

Take care speak later xxx

Thankyou for that hug, Patti. It was wonderful xxx

[maggie]

I've not so far said it but it may help to clarify what I've been attempting to say. Children see parental figures as being all powerful. They believe every word adults say. They don't understand sarcasm or adult nuances in speech. Tell a child "it's raining cats and dogs" and that's what it will expect to see. I recall shedding tears because a house was going to be stonedashed (think about the references to stonedashing in the Bible) I wondered what they had done that was so wrong and where they would go. I'd like to believe that if people realized how easy it is to "bend" the mind of an impressionable child, they would take better care, but sadly, there are always those who feel powerless in their own lives and seek to gain power over others. In children, they find the perfect opportunity.

That is so true April, young children are so vulnerable and trusting, its hard to believe how cruel people can be to them, often unwittingly and without thought.  However, its pretty obvious by her behaviour that June was an abused child herself. It takes great courage to have therapy for damage caused in childhood, also to recognise that maybe it's necessary.  June's generation and class of the stiff upper lip would never have recognised the foundations of her illness.

[JackiePreece]

It amazes me how someone can change their mind on Jeremy Bambers guilt or innocence by whoever they decide to be friendly with. One minute stating something as fact (today) and another dismissing something as just part of a story in a book that's not factual

See below

andrea
Guest

Re: do the topless photos exist
« Reply #75 on: May 23, 2011, 10:39:PM »
Quote
it is definately in the claire powell book, its in that book that she mentions the meeting at the pub, where they allegedly tried to do a deal with the reporter for the pictures. i have that book, its called murder at whithouse farm.
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Tyler
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Re: do the topless photos exist
« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2011, 10:46:PM »
Quote
Quote from: andrea on May 23, 2011, 10:39:PM
it is definately in the claire powell book, its in that book that she mentions the meeting at the pub, where they allegedly tried to do a deal with the reporter for the pictures. i have that book, its called murder at whithouse farm.

Yep,thats the one Andrea

.Do you believe it happened? Only,Claire writing about that meeting obviously put Jeremy in a bad light and yet in most of the book,she seems quite supportive of him.Thats what made me wonder if it was indeed true.

andrea
Guest

Re: do the topless photos exist
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2011, 08:22:AM »

ive no idea tyler, she gets a lot of things wrong in that book. for instance when june caught sheila in the field with colin, powell said it was a farmhand and that they were having sex in a ditch. cc himself told the true story. the book aint that reliable but is any book?

grahame
Guest

Re: do the topless photos exist
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2011, 08:40:AM »
Quote
Quote from: andrea on May 24, 2011, 08:22:AM
ive no idea tyler, she gets a lot of things wrong in that book. for instance when june caught sheila in the field with colin, powell said it was a farmhand and that they were having sex in a ditch. cc himself told the true story. the book aint that reliable but is any book?
Now that is a very relevant statement Andrea. How many of us take for granted that which a certain book says is true? Or how many of us check up on the writer of the book to see what they themselves believe? Very few of us are neutral on any subject and what we write may reflect that which we ourselves believe and not what is actually true?
Again you can see this prejudice in the forum as well. Someone may believe in something so strongly that they cannot see the truth and indeed refuse even to read another person's opinion from the opposite side. What makes this even more confusing is that, that person is convinced that they are looking at all things fairly.

[Patti]

Maybe poor old june had never been hugged.  Do we know what her childhood was like?  Behviour is passed from generation to generation xxxx

Hi Maggie

I remember AE saying that when Grannie S was told about the deaths...She sat up and said " It's the devil at work, or its the devils work" So it makes you wonder...

Just enjoying an ice cream...mmmmm

[maggie]

Hi Maggie

I remember AE saying that when Grannie S was told about the deaths...She sat up and said " It's the devil at work, or its the devils work" So it makes you wonder...

Just enjoying an ice cream...mmmmm

Patti, I do believe June herself was an abused child if she hadnt been touched and hugged as a child she may have found touching and hugging almost impossible. I think june was a victim herself and that was the basis of her own mental illness.  Maybe she found it easier to cuddle a stuffed toy than a human being. We should show her some compassion. imho.