Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF

[maggie]

The holidays are not new news. The Holland trip included Jeremy,Julie and Brett. I believe this was the holiday on which Julie claims she was raped and blamed Jeremy because "he wasn't there"? The St Tropez trip was just Jeremy and Brett. Was it not this holiday that upon their return they were arrested at Dover?

You are right tyler, they were arrested returning from St Tropez.

I have never heard about Julie being raped, that's a new one on me.

[killingeve]

The holidays are not new news. The Holland trip included Jeremy,Julie and Brett. I believe this was the holiday on which Julie claims she was raped and blamed Jeremy because "he wasn't there"? The St Tropez trip was just Jeremy and Brett. Was it not this holiday that upon their return they were arrested at Dover?

Hi Tyler

Yes I was aware of the hols but not the monetary amounts and level of service ie 6k and first class.  Yes my post is a bit garbled.

I thought when JM claims she was raped it was whilst in France/abroad unaccompanied by JB.

[killingeve]

Did JM report the rape?

[lookout]

Did JM report the rape?

Probably not.

[killingeve]

Probably not.

Morning Lookout

I think the forum has only briefly touched on the subject of JM's rape.  I guess if it's true we should consider what effect this might have had on her.  I've read she blamed JB for not being with her 

If for whatever reason she made it up then this IMO points to there being something not right with her mental state and is evidence of her ability to lie over serious matters and accuse (male) of a serious crime.

In JB's wit stat he refers to her step-father abusing her (not sure if he actually uses the word 'abuse' and can't be bothered to look but some sort of maltreatment - violent I think).  There seems to be a bit of a pattern here where she's accusing men of serious offences:

Stepfather - maltreatment

Anonymous - rape

JB - 5 x murders

If all true she's incredibly unlucky and if not what's going on in her head to make up such things?

Despite the above she puts herself forward to identify the 5 victims of WHF tragedy?

[susan]

Morning N/N  how ya today.  Perhaps JM was seeking attention especially from males, again identifying the bodies was maybe her seeking attention again.  Some females do make up stories for some bizarre reason maybe to do with their childhood or something lacking in their childhood.  She certainly got the attention she was craving when Jeremy was sent to prison for life.

[lookout]

Morning Lookout

I think the forum has only briefly touched on the subject of JM's rape.  I guess if it's true we should consider what effect this might have had on her.  I've read she blamed JB for not being with her 

If for whatever reason she made it up then this IMO points to there being something not right with her mental state and is evidence of her ability to lie over serious matters and accuse (male) of a serious crime.

In JB's wit stat he refers to her step-father abusing her (not sure if he actually uses the word 'abuse' and can't be bothered to look but some sort of maltreatment - violent I think).  There seems to be a bit of a pattern here where she's accusing men of serious offences:

Stepfather - maltreatment

Anonymous - rape

JB - 5 x murders

If all true she's incredibly unlucky and if not what's going on in her head to make up such things?

Despite the above she puts herself forward to identify the 5 victims of WHF tragedy?

Good morning,NN. I agree that JM was an attention seeker,,and now realise that whatever had gone on in her home life,,would have had a bearing on her behaviour,,which I would have thought was full of drama at times. Also a tendency to tell lies would have been her way of having " power " over whoever it might be. One thing for sure,,she was never true to herself,,and unless she has changed,that trait remains through life. In other words,living a life of pretence to impress others,,when in reality,that's not the " true you ".
I wouldn't have said that JM was a genuine person at all.Certainly not someone that you would trust,,as has been proved when you can convince the world that your ex was a murderer.
JM's actions at the trial must have knocked Jeremy sideways,,as he didn't appear to know what a " slanging match " was at the time,,or he wouldn't have remained as silent as he did. He certainly didn't expect their lives together to be played out in the way it was,just so that she could " get her own back " for being dumped. Though Jeremy wouldn't have realised that at the time,because JM was streets ahead where deceit and morals were concerned. 

[Jane]

Good morning,NN. I agree that JM was an attention seeker,,and now realise that whatever had gone on in her home life,,would have had a bearing on her behaviour,,which I would have thought was full of drama at times. Also a tendency to tell lies would have been her way of having " power " over whoever it might be. One thing for sure,,she was never true to herself,,and unless she has changed,that trait remains through life. In other words,living a life of pretence to impress others,,when in reality,that's not the " true you ".
I wouldn't have said that JM was a genuine person at all.Certainly not someone that you would trust,,as has been proved when you can convince the world that your ex was a murderer.
JM's actions at the trial must have knocked Jeremy sideways,,as he didn't appear to know what a " slanging match " was at the time,,or he wouldn't have remained as silent as he did. He certainly didn't expect their lives together to be played out in the way it was,just so that she could " get her own back " for being dumped. Though Jeremy wouldn't have realised that at the time,because JM was streets ahead where deceit and morals were concerned.

Lookout, reading your words, I'm hearing "Drama Queen." Could there have been sooooo much drama in her early life, courtesy of parental rifts, abusive "steps" that it became her "normal" and if it wasn't there it had to be created? In none of the situations in which she has involvement does she seem content to remain in the background. She's at the forefront at all times. It COULD just be a "ME, ME, ME" thing OR it could be a need for danger and excitement, and if it's not forthcoming, there would be a need to invent it. This, of course, begs the question of how far would she be willing to go to coerce Jeremy into providing her with what she needed. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have been up for much of what was suggested/offered. After all, he'd had a taste of what life in the wider world could offer, but if he'd made the decision that it wasn't going to be too long before he'd be required to stay on the farm, he may have been pleased to think that some excitement had come into his life, rather than he having to go looking for it.................the problem is, it can become wearing, too much of a good thing. MIGHT this have contributed to the reasons for Jeremy dumping her. Did her tantrums start to pall? Did he object to waking up to find a pillow over his face? Was he embarrassed by rows in public? Did he start to see her differently after she told him that if she couldn't have him, no one else would? Maybe her neediness made her too clinging, too demanding.

[tyler]

Funny,I was thinking about all this last night! It occurred to me that JM didn't appear to show any emotion toward ANYTHING unless it was concerned directly with HER. No emotion expressed when JB allegedly told her he planned to do away with his family,neither when he allegedly told he he hired a hitman to carry it out,no emotion at the morgue or the funeral. It seemed to only appear when she realised she was losing Jeremy. Jealousy,tries to smother him,throwing things,temper tantrums...and finally revenge?

[Steve_uk]

Funny,I was thinking about all this last night! It occurred to me that JM didn't appear to show any emotion toward ANYTHING unless it was concerned directly with HER. No emotion expressed when JB allegedly told her he planned to do away with his family,neither when he allegedly told he he hired a hitman to carry it out,no emotion at the morgue or the funeral. It seemed to only appear when she realised she was losing Jeremy. Jealousy,tries to smother him,throwing things,temper tantrums...and finally revenge?

Yet you only know of these things because of Julie;it comes from the mouth of a frightened girl whose character was not perfect like us all but who did not bargain for murder and told a warts and all tale with the unpromising likelihood that she would be believed.

[killingeve]

Yet you only know of these things because of Julie;it comes from the mouth of a frightened girl whose character was not perfect like us all but who did not bargain for murder and told a warts and all tale with the unpromising likelihood that she would be believed.

As you appear to have intimate knowledge of JM are you able and willing to shed any light on her rape and/or violence suffered at the hands of her step-father?

[Jane]

Yet you only know of these things because of Julie;it comes from the mouth of a frightened girl whose character was not perfect like us all but who did not bargain for murder and told a warts and all tale with the unpromising likelihood that she would be believed.

Steve, why is it that you are the only one here who sees Julie as a "frightened girl"?

[Steve_uk]

It's funny you're all quick to talk about courtesy but this hangs on a thread whilst discussing Colin and Julie. I'm all for free speech but can we put at least Julie's ordeal to one side as any sane person would whilst discussing this case,and tread carefully with Colin who has lost two sons which I personally doubt if I could make a recovery from.

[lookout]

I know one thing,,everyone was selfish.There was poor Sheila struggling with her health,no support,,a husband who cast her aside because he couldn't " hack it " instead of singularly seeking help ( it was his wife afterall ) then rubs her nose into it by flaunting another woman on his arm.Where was his sensitivity when he knew that Sheila was ill.?
The Bambers themselves kept the illness to themselves.Julie and Jeremy were too full of themselves to even notice that all wasn't well. The relatives didn't know the half of it.
What a shower.!

[Jane]

It's funny you're all quick to talk about courtesy but this hangs on a thread whilst discussing Colin and Julie. I'm all for free speech but can we put at least Julie's ordeal to one side as any sane person would whilst discussing this case,and tread carefully with Colin who has lost two sons which I personally doubt if I could make a recovery from.

Steve, you're very quick to throw onto others any responsibility you may own. Might this be because you find it dificult to apologize?

Nobody here would deny the magnitude of Colin's loss. Some of us may understand just how much guilt is tied in with that. IMO, one NEVER recovers from grief but it very slowly retreats to a place where, for the most part, it doesn't fully overwhelm us as it had previously.

As for what you see as Julie's ordeal, I saw on her face, expressions NO different from Jeremy's. I can accept that Jeremy, not previously having lost his whole family, had no idea of how to be, but I find her lack of emotion inexplicable. When my beloved partners young son was killed, he shed tears only in my presence because that's where he felt safe. At the funeral, I wept copiously the tears he couldn't. I cried for his son. I cried for him because I couldn't cope with HIS loss. Julie remained fixed throughout. If nit wasn't in her to cry for those little boys, for the loss of his sister and parents. Surely she could have found it in her to cry for the man she supposedly loved so much that if she couldn't have him, no one else would.