Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF

[ajross]

I agree that it is speculative to say she was just anxious and worried. I don't believe that would explain her taking no interest in the boys as June mentioned to PB. Or the way she spoke to PB on the  phone. If she were waiting for CC to speak to her parents she could have talked to him about it on the way to WHF.

If she was 'catatonic' surely she wouldn't have spoken at all! And of course you omit to state that the idea it was the beginning of a 'psychotic episode' is speculative.

[ajross]

If she was 'catatonic' surely she wouldn't have spoken at all! And of course you omit to state that the idea it was the beginning of a 'psychotic episode' is speculative.

Sorry, I could make so many points here and back them up but I simply can't be bothered. There are some posters who are so blinkered that they cannot see any point other than theirs. All I am doing is reviewing the statements made by Colin in his book as per the thread title. I am not proclaiming any guilt or innocence because at this point I do not care, it is not part of what I am trying to do. At no point in his book to the point I have got to does he describe her as 'catatonic' he says she was 'miles away'. On being asked to stay the night he refused and states

'Bambs, who had said very little since our arrival, looked very disappointed. I had once again chickened out of talking to them on her behalf.'

Again, not very catatonic or psychotic

[Patti]

Patti, hi and hope you're feeling better. What you say would certainly follow if she had been bought up the way I believe her to have been.

Hi april I am fine thank you and, your good self?

I feel sorry for Sheila in a sense, because I think people took advantage of her good nature. I don't think she had much luck with men either...I think they saw her as some sort of tool to be used, then discarded her when they had finished with her....

From what Colin says in her book, she loved him dearly and he admits he had let her down...but in death , he wanted to make amends with her...if you see what I mean...

Jeremy points this out to Colin in a frustrated letter he wrote to him....He accuses him more or less for her illness and tells him straight, that he knew she would not manage the twins on her own....

Colins book is now available on Amazon.......cheaper than it was priced a few months ago....if you are thinking of buying it....

[Jane]

Hi april I am fine thank you and, your good self?

I feel sorry for Sheila in a sense, because I think people took advantage of her good nature. I don't think she had much luck with men either...I think they saw her as some sort of tool to be used, then discarded her when they had finished with her....

From what Colin says in her book, she loved him dearly and he admits he had let her down...but in death , he wanted to make amends with her...if you see what I mean...

Jeremy points this out to Colin in a frustrated letter he wrote to him....He accuses him more or less for her illness and tells him straight, that he knew she would not manage the twins on her own....

Colins book is now available on Amazon.......cheaper than it was priced a few months ago....if you are thinking of buying it....

Patti, I'm well, thankyou.

I feel that Sheila's life was how it was because her sense of self worth was almost nonexistent. I feel very strongly that at the bottom of this was her illegitimacy and subsequent adoption, and she became a reflection of what June told her she was, but IMO she was a girl desperately in need of somebody to love her, whilst feeling unworthy of love.

 I think it likely that her love for Colin overwhelmed him. In her eyes, she probably thought him the answer to her prayers and lived in constant fear of losing him. I feel she was too needy for most men to cope with long term, probably seeking constant reassurance that they loved her. I believe that in a never ending and often futile search for love, she threw herself at men, and was used because she allowed herself to be used because she felt worthless. I think Colin was just one of many who let her down and it's to his credit that he recognizes it, but I truly believe he was not equipped to deal with it. He was not only father to twin boys, he also had to be "father" to a young woman who, IMO, was never going to be, emotionally, more than a child herself.........and then there was her illness. He may have looked elsewhere because he needed adult female support.

I read his book in the first half of the 1990s. My local library had it in along with all the other books on the local murders.

I have a huge sense of anger and helplessness when I think about Sheila. It's almost as if she was destined to be a victim from the moment of her birth. All I can say is that it isn't fair and then I'm reminded that my beloved late partner would tell me there is no book anywhere that says it is.

[ajross]

Hi Lookout

Dr F's wit stat states that Sheila talked about suicide although he didn't regard her as a risk but how reliable was Dr F as a so-called expert witness?  He appears to have been little more than a glove puppet for the Bambers - an aid to keep the family dysfunction under wraps rather than confronting uncomfortable truths.

When Colin was initially told about the murder/suicide tragedy he said something along the lines of "So she has finally done it".  He was obviously aware that suicide was on Sheila's mind.

Had Sheila been thinking about suicide for some time?  She might have considered different methods and thought a gun at WHF was the best option. 

Interestingly Colin's father even had a similar response to that.

[Jane]

Hi ajross

Thanks again for the updates above.

I noted your comments re Daniel being particularly concerned about June's proselytising and Colin saying that he would confront June and that in any event his mummy wld be on hand.  However as you probably know on the Monday, day before murders, Sheila was seen running from a nearby monastery and then seen running through a small woodland back towards WHF.  On both these occasions she was alone.  So where were the twins?  Were they left alone with June?

In one of Patti's post she states that when Sheila was in hospital someone, can't recall who perhaps Colin's sister or girlfriend, took the twins to Sheila's flat so that June cld meet with them.  This was on the basis that the twins should not be left alone with June as per Colin's instructions. 

So given the above who was looking after the twins whilst Sheila visited the monastery which was apparently a round trip of some 8 miles?  As she didn't drive did she walk, get a bus, taxi, lift by arrangement or hitch or some other means?  If she walked which appears to be the way she returned this would have taken her 2 - 3 hours incl time spent in monastery. 

ajross do you think Sheila had the same concerns about leaving the twins with June as Colin did?

Can we actually be certain that Sheila, herself relished visiting her parents. The deeper one looks the more one can see just how much the senior Bambers had control of their childrens' lives, both financially and emotionally. The younger Bambers would seem to have led a lifestyle envied by many, but it seems to me that lifestyle always had strings attached. I have a strong sense of "Remember, everything you have and everything you are is because of what we have done for you."

I can't imagine that Sheila was happy to leave her children with June, watching her own childhood replayed through them, but sadly she seems not to have been in the position to do much about it. Partly, one supposes, because of her illness, and possibly partly because Colin may not have been strong enough emotionally, to cope with her for long periods without a break (I think caring for her might have been like caring for a willful child) It seems to me that wherever her body was, spiritually and emotionally, part of her remained at the farm. Might this have been the place, where despite June's less than loving mother treatment of her, she felt safest? What a curious dichotomy.

As nobody has come forward to say they transported her to the monastery that day, it must be assumed that she walked, whether by design or chance we will never know, but it's reasonable to assume that if it was by design, it was somewhere she wanted to go and there was purpose to her visit. On the other hand, if she had been building up to an episode she may not have been aware of where she was going and may have been in a place where she wasn't a mother.

[Jane]

ADVANCE NOTICE

ITV 1 at 10.35 tonight "I took my baby's life" is the story of a mother who killed her baby during a psychotic episode.

[lookout]

ADVANCE NOTICE

ITV 1 at 10.35 tonight "I took my baby's life" is the story of a mother who killed her baby during a psychotic episode.

Thankyou for that reminder,April. Good morning btw.
It still won't sink in with a lot of people that these things do happen,,,so perhaps it'll be an insight into the mind/s of patients who suffer mental illness such as this. Mainly women might I add.

It is becoming more and more public knowledge now than it was back in the mid-eighties,,but even so,,doctors,psychologists,physicians,etc didn't seem to have a grasp towards the future with such illnesses,,,which is part and parcel of their careers in researching to look ahead,as it were.

When you think about it,,they didn't know an awful lot about the brain and its different functions,,,by not going deeper into the symptoms,,it became a " one fits all " so far as medication went,,,and as a consequence you'd have one psychotic drug suiting one and not another,,,causing adverse effects and in turn making the patient far worse than they actually were to start with instead of studying each individual.

With paranoid schizophrenics,you never know how their temperament is going to pan out from one day to another,,,and the least thing can bring on a psychotic outburst. As I'd mentioned,,,particularly in women with a hormone imbalance.
Specialists in this field are Endocrinologists who deal with glands which secrete hormones. The thyroid gland is a pointer in the way a patient behaves,,,and is the " seat " for the fight or flight situation which controls the anxiety levels in the body.
Poor Sheila had numerous issues which nobody understood,,,nor by the sound of it,,wanted to either. 
She couldn't even understand what was going on inside herself,,,and probably,rightfully,relied upon the GP to help her.

[Jane]

Thankyou for that reminder,April. Good morning btw.
It still won't sink in with a lot of people that these things do happen,,,so perhaps it'll be an insight into the mind/s of patients who suffer mental illness such as this. Mainly women might I add.

It is becoming more and more public knowledge now than it was back in the mid-eighties,,but even so,,doctors,psychologists,physicians,etc didn't seem to have a grasp towards the future with such illnesses,,,which is part and parcel of their careers in researching to look ahead,as it were.

When you think about it,,they didn't know an awful lot about the brain and its different functions,,,by not going deeper into the symptoms,,it became a " one fits all " so far as medication went,,,and as a consequence you'd have one psychotic drug suiting one and not another,,,causing adverse effects and in turn making the patient far worse than they actually were to start with instead of studying each individual.

With paranoid schizophrenics,you never know how their temperament is going to pan out from one day to another,,,and the least thing can bring on a psychotic outburst. As I'd mentioned,,,particularly in women with a hormone imbalance.
Specialists in this field are Endocrinologists who deal with glands which secrete hormones. The thyroid gland is a pointer in the way a patient behaves,,,and is the " seat " for the fight or flight situation which controls the anxiety levels in the body.
Poor Sheila had numerous issues which nobody understood,,,nor by the sound of it,,wanted to either. 
She couldn't even understand what was going on inside herself,,,and probably,rightfully,relied upon the GP to help her.

Hi, Lookout and good morning to you, too. I guess back then, it was a case of "Dr knows best." Poor love, how could she know that a gp had such little knowledge of emotional and mental problems.

[lookout]

Hi Lookout

Dr F's wit stat states that Sheila talked about suicide although he didn't regard her as a risk but how reliable was Dr F as a so-called expert witness?  He appears to have been little more than a glove puppet for the Bambers - an aid to keep the family dysfunction under wraps rather than confronting uncomfortable truths.

When Colin was initially told about the murder/suicide tragedy he said something along the lines of "So she has finally done it".  He was obviously aware that suicide was on Sheila's mind.

Had Sheila been thinking about suicide for some time?  She might have considered different methods and thought a gun at WHF was the best option. 

Morning egap,,,I'm inclined to think that deep down quite a few people took it that Sheila had carried out the murders,,,but why their thoughts didn't override the others,I don't know. I'm surprised that those who thought it could have been Sheila,,,weren't more forthcoming instead of either following,,or again,,being swayed by the then majority.
Had they known the full family background and its little foibles concerning June and Ralphs' covering up of Sheilas' behaviour at times,,,then there'd have been more of an understanding of the family in general.
Yes,,Sheila would have been plotting,in her own mind,,the suicide that she " craved ",,because she was so very ill. I will not be moved on this,,as years of studying peoples' minds,,brings me to that conclusion.
She'd have been completely oblivious as to what she was doing that night,,,except maybe until she was facing her mother,who probably sparked the whole thing off.

[lookout]

Interestingly Colin's father even had a similar response to that.

Good morning ajross,,,it doesn't surprise me that Colins' father also thought along those lines.Those without a vested interest,,who are on the outside,,would also have thought the same if they'd studied the case carefully,,,and of course,,knew that Sheila was sick,but at the same time,capable of carrying out murder,,as well as having some sort of knowledge of the family.

[lookout]

Hi, Lookout and good morning to you, too. I guess back then, it was a case of "Dr knows best." Poor love, how could she know that a gp had such little knowledge of emotional and mental problems.

Hi April,,,even today GP's know very little about emotional problems,,,and it takes them all their time to refer them to someone who has at least a modicum of understanding.
To be honest,,,although technology has advanced,,,it seems to have stood in the way of professionals being learned in their field of medicine,etc. Granted there are some clever doctors around,,,but it's the " older " members of the profession who are streets ahead of those who have been trained-up in this modern society.

[Jane]

Hi April................ it's the " older " members of the profession who are streets ahead of those who have been trained-up in this modern society.

Lookout, that's a point that previously I hadn't given any thought to, but you're right and I suspect that "older" professionals have had time to develop the Oh, so important gut feeling that can't be found in any text books, whilst "the newbies" with no experience, in general, go only by the book.

[grahameb]

ADVANCE NOTICE

ITV 1 at 10.35 tonight "I took my baby's life" is the story of a mother who killed her baby during a psychotic episode.

I will find it a struggle to watch that program?

[lookout]

I will find it a struggle to watch that program?

Aw,,Grahame,,be brave.If only to understand that this illness has been with us for years,,,without a full understanding of its consequences in some. To prove to others that it does,,and always has existed,,,rather than taking it on a more personal and painful experience.