Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF

[Roch]

Hi Rochford

I skimmed the Andrew Hunter book draft when Mike first posted it.  I picked up one or two new things but overall it seemed to be some sort of summary of all the stuff we discuss on the forum.  However, I'm sure the general public would have found it interesting  . I think Scott's book in hardback was the last to be published in 2008?   Was there an earlier paperback version?

Had Andrew have had the book published I think it would have reached a wide audience, ie the ruling elite, in that here was a right wing tory mp highlighting potentially the country's biggest ever moj 

Nothing in there about my pet areas ie June's mental illness 1959 potentially giving rise to an attachment disorder in Sheila, adoption psychology within adoptive families and Sheila's reunion with her birth mother only weeks before the murders  .  I don't understand why these areas are so neglected when just about everthing and the kitchen sink is chucked at it. The only famous British pscyhologist I can think of is John Bowlby the others are all European or American.  Maybe this has some bearing and the fact that Britain pre WHF tragedy was a bit behind the times in terms of pscyhology.  Perhaps stems from the Victorian era stiff upper lip.  I'm pretty certain that had the tragedy have occurred in the US far more emphasis would have been placed on the pscyhological aspects.

Rochford you're my favourite boy poster  .  10/10 for you but don't know about the books.

 
I'm not sure what I've done to deserve this accolade    but hey, I'm not complainin 

As for Hunter... seems to have been pretty much on the right of the party like you say.  I have only skimmed through it also but will read it seriously tomorrow when I cover a shift at work.  This is the bloke who got up in parliament and gave in my opinion, a cracking speech.  It caused a few ripples to say the least.  He has clearly been privy to information right at the heart of this case and from external sources not available to others. 

[ajross]

Hi ajross

Yes the word 'sexy' seems somewhat inappropriate but perhaps he didn't quite know how to view her ie a woman who just sort of appeared in their lives v a sort of mother-in-law.  Perhaps physically attractive might have been a better description.  Perhaps he was just bowled over by the differences, mentally and physically, between Sheila's birth mother, Christine, and June.

Does it say anything else in the book about the reunion?  Were they due to meet again?  Any plans for Sheila to meet the rest of the birth family who I believe lived in Canada?  Were Nevill and June aware of  of the reunion?

It's my view that all of this tipped Sheila over the edge.  I think when she visited WHF in Aug this was the first time since meeting her birth mother.  I believe Jeremy in his wit stat makes ref to June and Nevill encouraging Sheila to take a hol in Eastbourne.  Why Eastbourne?  How many single twenty year olds want a hol in Eastbourne?  Perhaps Sheila had plans to visit Canada and discussed the whole thing with June and Nevill and the mother of all arguments ensued.  Perhaps after meeting Christine and learning about other members of her birth family she cldn't reconcile the person she was with either her birth or adoptive family .  Perhaps (sorry so many perhaps) she thought that had she not have been adopted she would not have ended up in the mess she was.  I would have to agree with her here.  There can be no doubt that June was a totally unsuitable adoptive mother and had a detrimental effect on Sheila and all aspects of her life.

You mentioned in another post that Colin was going to confront Nevill and June and I wld be grateful if you let us know what this was about.  Thanks.

He met her a couple of times, once after the murders at least while she was getting  a connecting flight. The boys also met her and Sheila had a collection of photographs that CC was keen to get when he had the aforementioned 'nude' picture encounter with JB. One of the birth family was at one of the funerals but I can't remember which funeral, it was possibly a birth uncle or brother. If you want more detail let me know and I will scan over it in the next couple of days and find it. Unfortunately i've been sidetracked by a car accident this week so haven't had so much time.

[ajross]

She went to school in Eastbourne I believe for a while, so that may be why. He was due to confront her about June forcing the boys to pray I believe and also about something to do with her treatment by them and her treatment for her problems. He has a crisis of conscience at this point in the book as he was telling Sheila not to let people tell her what to do, stand up for herself and take control and states that he was doing just what others were. He never did confront them about these issues and says he failed her that night and that the boys were terrified of being left there.

(Very spooky that, I just opened the book at the exact page, here you go Egap


'While we were waiting for people to arrive Bambs told me that she had spoken to her parents about not being happy with her treatment but their attitude had still been that they knew best and that they had absoute faith in her existing psychiatrist@

He goes on to get very angry about this and says

'You must try and stand up to them, because it's almost as if they have broken your spirit!' I then suggested that I would speak to her father when i next saw him. Hopefully I would get a chance when I dropped her and the boys off at the farm the following day.'

He also says later

'As it was the boys wanted me to come with them to have a word with June about the proselytising and her shouting at them if they didn't eat meat.
Apart from the fact that since they had ben living with me Daniel had decided to become a vegetarian, i'd had serious cause to confront June about her forcing the twins to kneel and say prayers at every opportunity. She didn't taken kindly to my correction' (the mistake is in the book)
'You will remember to havea word with Granny about the prayers and everything, won't you, daddy? shouted Daniel from the back seat of our very noisy Volkswagen Camper.
Yes, of course I will. Now don't you worry about it
Do you promise?
Yes, I promise. And besides, Mummy will be there with you to make sure, once i've said something, won't you Bambs?'


I am now marking the pages that I quote for future reference and by the way Egap1 this may be interesting, his book is actually dedicated to several people, one of whom is Sheila's birth mother!!!
[/quote]

[Patti]

She went to school in Eastbourne I believe for a while, so that may be why. He was due to confront her about June forcing the boys to pray I believe and also about something to do with her treatment by them and her treatment for her problems. He has a crisis of conscience at this point in the book as he was telling Sheila not to let people tell her what to do, stand up for herself and take control and states that he was doing just what others were. He never did confront them about these issues and says he failed her that night and that the boys were terrified of being left there.

(Very spooky that, I just opened the book at the exact page, here you go Egap




'While we were waiting for people to arrive Bambs told me that she had spoken to her parents about not being happy with her treatment but their attitude had still been that they knew best and that they had absoute faith in her existing psychiatrist@

He goes on to get very angry about this and says

'You must try and stand up to them, because it's almost as if they have broken your spirit!' I then suggested that I would speak to her father when i next saw him. Hopefully I would get a chance when I dropped her and the boys off at the farm the following day.'

He also says later

'As it was the boys wanted me to come with them to have a word with June about the proselytising and her shouting at them if they didn't eat meat.
Apart from the fact that since they had ben living with me Daniel had decided to become a vegetarian, i'd had serious cause to confront June about her forcing the twins to kneel and say prayers at every opportunity. She didn't taken kindly to my correction' (the mistake is in the book)
'You will remember to havea word with Granny about the prayers and everything, won't you, daddy? shouted Daniel from the back seat of our very noisy Volkswagen Camper.
Yes, of course I will. Now don't you worry about it
Do you promise?
Yes, I promise. And besides, Mummy will be there with you to make sure, once i've said something, won't you Bambs?'


I am now marking the pages that I quote for future reference and by the way Egap1 this may be interesting, his book is actually dedicated to several people, one of whom is Sheila's birth mother!!!

AJ I love your book reviews.....it is a real shame we can't all sit round a table and discuss it all....

[lookout]

Some superb and very informative posts for those who may have either overlooked a couple of issues, or who weren't aware of one or two snippets of information.

[Patti]

Some superb and very informative posts for those who may have either overlooked a couple of issues, or who weren't aware of one or two snippets of information.

Hi Lookout, where you been? Not seen you for ages....I suspect you are keeping away from my window comments...lol

What snippets? 

[lookout]

Hi Lookout, where you been? Not seen you for ages....I suspect you are keeping away from my window comments...lol

What snippets? 

Hi Patti,,,oh I've been here now and again. Busy here with family coming and going. I'm enjoying all the posts and have also been catching up with them,,,yours included. Have a read of the Andrew Hunter " book " ,,that's where the " snippets " are. It's surprising what the man knows,or how he knows. A very clever man too. Hope all is well with you.

[Patti]

Hi Patti,,,oh I've been here now and again. Busy here with family coming and going. I'm enjoying all the posts and have also been catching up with them,,,yours included. Have a read of the Andrew Hunter " book " ,,that's where the " snippets " are. It's surprising what the man knows,or how he knows. A very clever man too. Hope all is well with you.

Hi Lookout, will try and read his book tomorrow, I am too done in to read it tonight...I have been on the Madeleine thread....I wont get you started lol  But do you remember the South African that said he could find M's body....well, he has hit the news headlines again. He claims to have spent thousands of pounds of his own money searching for her.....I am off now Lookout, got to hit the pillow, been busy more or less all day....Speak soon....

[lebaleb]

He also says in his book that she was very worried and apprehensive about going there and he had promised to speak to June and Ralph on her behalf which he never did, could she not just have been waiting for him to say something given that she was scared to herself? Could the silence on teh way there not have been theses nerves? Could she also have been a little hungover or tired from the party the night before?

I doubt that she was hung over from the party as she left early after not doing anything except sitting and staring out of the window.

[lookout]

I doubt that she was hung over from the party as she left early after not doing anything except sitting and staring out of the window.

And thinking out her masterplan,eh,lebaleb.?

[ajross]

I doubt that she was hung over from the party as she left early after not doing anything except sitting and staring out of the window.

She had a lift home at about midnight by JB and JM after the boys has gone to bed. Colin had had too much to drink to take her, this was the point she was seemingly very afraid of JB for whatever reason. Colin doesn't really state what she did. I find it difficult to believe that anybody  would consider her quiet, withdrawn and pensive state to be a sign of a psychotic episode, I find it much more likely that she was anxious about Colin talking to her parents as she had requested and as,eventually, he failed to do.

[ajross]

Further evidence that Sheila was in a catatonic state [indicator of a psychotic episode] is in CC's statement. He says that Sheila didn't say a word him or the children on the trip from London to WHF and that she appeared very vacant while they were at the farm. Corroborated by Jeremy saying Sheila 'just sat there'.

 Could this all not be explained by Colin making a promise and her waiting for him to do what he had promised? She was upset with her treatment, the praying, the fear of the boys being taken away, the boys themselves were afraid because of the religious rhetoric and Daniel declaring himself a vegetarian. It is completely speculative to say that she was just worried and anxious, but it is just as speculative to suggest that she was in a 'catatonic' state and at the beginning of a psychotic episode and I am only going by Colin's affirmations in his book

[lebaleb]

Could this all not be explained by Colin making a promise and her waiting for him to do what he had promised? She was upset with her treatment, the praying, the fear of the boys being taken away, the boys themselves were afraid because of the religious rhetoric and Daniel declaring himself a vegetarian. It is completely speculative to say that she was just worried and anxious, but it is just as speculative to suggest that she was in a 'catatonic' state and at the beginning of a psychotic episode and I am only going by Colin's affirmations in his book

I agree that it is speculative to say she was just anxious and worried. I don't believe that would explain her taking no interest in the boys as June mentioned to PB. Or the way she spoke to PB on the  phone. If she were waiting for CC to speak to her parents she could have talked to him about it on the way to WHF.

[Patti]

She had a lift home at about midnight by JB and JM after the boys has gone to bed. Colin had had too much to drink to take her, this was the point she was seemingly very afraid of JB for whatever reason. Colin doesn't really state what she did. I find it difficult to believe that anybody  would consider her quiet, withdrawn and pensive state to be a sign of a psychotic episode, I find it much more likely that she was anxious about Colin talking to her parents as she had requested and as,eventually, he failed to do.

Hi AJ
 
Don't you get the feeling that Sheila was always let down? I also get the feeling that she was so gullible, to the point that she trusted everyone in her path....

[Jane]

Hi AJ
 
Don't you get the feeling that Sheila was always let down? I also get the feeling that she was so gullible, to the point that she trusted everyone in her path....

Patti, hi and hope you're feeling better. What you say would certainly follow if she had been bought up the way I believe her to have been.