Author Topic: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF  (Read 248019 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ajross

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 538
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1035 on: July 04, 2012, 02:07:PM »
This doesn't answer the question posed on another thread but it gives Colin's view and some extra information:

'Let me show you,' he said, leading the way to their room. It was spotlessly clean; even the drawers had been hoovered out. I felt heartbroken and violated. It had been so important for me that I do it myself. He then led us to the other hall curpboard and said, pointing to the bottom shelf, 'This is where Sheila's photographs are.'

I began to feel that everything I was being shown had been carefully set up and orchestrated in order to gain an effect. In the cupboard there was a small pile of Bambs's modelling shots, a box of contact sheets and five photograph albums of the kids. There was also a box of slides and some other very personal items. I asked Jeremy about her actual portfolio but he told me that he had that at his house in Goldhanger; and besides, he wished to keep all the 'famous photographs' for himself. (I didn't know there were any famous ones.) The albums contained all of her photographs of the twins through the years, carefully labelled with names, dates and ages. The modelling shots were all her rejects from the portfolio. I opened the container of slides, thinking they might be old ones of my own, and was surprised to find it full of Bambs in the nude; the sort of pictures one might find in a glossy men's magazine. I couldn't believe it, Bambs had always been very adamant about not doing any glamour work - she must have been really desperate for work. I later discovered that these were just test shots, taken by a friend, and were never published - or ever likely to be. I then realised Jeremy was gloating over my shoulder; eager to tell me there were a few more similar boxes but even more revealing'
'You see everything right down to the last detail in the others.' He laughed.
I was finding his behaviour extremely distastefl and more like that of an immature schoolboy ogling at his first girly magazine. Not a twenty five year old man looking at photographs of his dead sister.
'There's also another box of nude shots that you took in the fields at Whitehouse; I found them in Mum's bureau.

I have only added this as here has been dispute on here as to whether or not there were any photos, Colin clearly states that there were. JB was selling everything, he had these in his possession and I would be surprised to find that, reading on, Colin does not say that he expected JB to try and sell them.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1036 on: July 04, 2012, 02:28:PM »
Hi lookout  thanks for the post re. June I get more confused daily about the murders at the farm the only thing I feel certain about is Jeremy did not committ them and I am comfortable with that.  Not sure really what did happen it would appear Ralph was very snappy on the phone I have read so many different reports on Sheila,s mood that evening.  Just read the post put up by ajross and if what Colin said is true Jeremy was a very immature boy carrying on like he did over the pics.but that does not make him a mass murderer.  I was just reading a thread that egap1 sent me earlier and I did not know until now that Douglas Hurd was very critical of the police investigation.

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1037 on: July 04, 2012, 05:09:PM »
This doesn't answer the question posed on another thread but it gives Colin's view and some extra information:

'Let me show you,' he said, leading the way to their room. It was spotlessly clean; even the drawers had been hoovered out. I felt heartbroken and violated. It had been so important for me that I do it myself. He then led us to the other hall curpboard and said, pointing to the bottom shelf, 'This is where Sheila's photographs are.'

I began to feel that everything I was being shown had been carefully set up and orchestrated in order to gain an effect. In the cupboard there was a small pile of Bambs's modelling shots, a box of contact sheets and five photograph albums of the kids. There was also a box of slides and some other very personal items. I asked Jeremy about her actual portfolio but he told me that he had that at his house in Goldhanger; and besides, he wished to keep all the 'famous photographs' for himself. (I didn't know there were any famous ones.) The albums contained all of her photographs of the twins through the years, carefully labelled with names, dates and ages. The modelling shots were all her rejects from the portfolio. I opened the container of slides, thinking they might be old ones of my own, and was surprised to find it full of Bambs in the nude; the sort of pictures one might find in a glossy men's magazine. I couldn't believe it, Bambs had always been very adamant about not doing any glamour work - she must have been really desperate for work. I later discovered that these were just test shots, taken by a friend, and were never published - or ever likely to be. I then realised Jeremy was gloating over my shoulder; eager to tell me there were a few more similar boxes but even more revealing'
'You see everything right down to the last detail in the others.' He laughed.
I was finding his behaviour extremely distastefl and more like that of an immature schoolboy ogling at his first girly magazine. Not a twenty five year old man looking at photographs of his dead sister.
'There's also another box of nude shots that you took in the fields at Whitehouse; I found them in Mum's bureau.

I have only added this as here has been dispute on here as to whether or not there were any photos, Colin clearly states that there were. JB was selling everything, he had these in his possession and I would be surprised to find that, reading on, Colin does not say that he expected JB to try and sell them.

Hi AJ

I can't understand why Colin would think he was entitled to go through Sheila's things and have them. He was divorced from her. It was up to JB, what he did with her things at the time. I must admit JB was an arrogant sod there is no doubt about that in my eyes, but this does not make him a killer. Poor Colin was going through a horrible time in his life, one has to respect that.... I don't make up any excuses for JB'S behaviour, for I detach myself form him, like I do Colin and, tend to look at the facts and the evidence that is provided.

There was talk in the press about the fact that JB had tried to sell some nude photo's of Sheila.  The fact is no photo's were ever bought or published, which tells another story. Where those photo's are and, what happened to them, one can only guess, that the family had them in the end, unless JB let someone else keep them for him.

I find that Colin is not too sure about JB being the killer. His first instinct was that Sheila had finally done what she claimed to have wanted to do....but Colin, says there is no way she would have killed her children....but, on saying that why did she not protect them that night? Why did she not hold them or her mother and father....why did she not fight the appellant? Why was she in her parents room? Was she the first to be shot? If so why didn't her parents stop the killer from shooting her twice...the pathologist said the shoots were likely to have been made close together...surely NB would have jumped on JB or June would have.....it's all odd, something is not right.... :) :) :) :)

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1038 on: July 04, 2012, 05:16:PM »
According to Pamela Boutflour Sheila was not behaving normally that evening. Jeremy says Sheila just sat at the table without comment while June was talking about the possibility the twins might end up being fostered [as she had mentioned to Mrs Brencher]. June states she was concerned about Sheila's health and also said Sheila was taking no interest in the boys or doing housework... catatonic?

Hi Lebaleb. In my opinion, this is another weakness for the CPS because...why would JB say his sister just sat there, then a few hours later try an pin the murders on her? If he was going to make her look like a killer he would have said something completely different...like she was going crazy with my mum and dad...but he said the opposite.... :) :) :)

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1039 on: July 04, 2012, 05:25:PM »
I must disagree with you Jam, There is evidence. Sheila was behaving strangely as indicated by Pamela Boutflour's statement that she spoke with Sheila who just answered yes or no and then left without saying goodnight. June then expressed concern over Sheila's health and was trying to persuade her to go for a 'holiday' in a home in Bornemouth.
I have personal experience and know that the use of these drugs is a fine balancing act, changes in levels of medication can trigger psychotic episodes. Doctors are not infallable. Patients need to be monitored closely and frequently have their medication adjusted.

Well said Lebaleb. The evidence is clear, that Sheila was not her usual self that night.  You are right to quote what PB had said in her statement....

Jean B the housekeeper also confirms that there was talk about fostering the children on a daily basis so Sheila could work....So this was not made up at all, it was fact.  :) :) :)

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1040 on: July 04, 2012, 05:28:PM »
Hi Patti  I find it very difficult to get my head round these murders I am convinced Jeremy was not responsible like you said he was an arrogant young silly fool in my opinion who did himself no favours and was is own worst enemy.  lookout brought a point out early that June had alot of blood on herself and on her feet and one does start to wonder.  But you would expect Sheila to protect her boys with her life unless she was killed first but somehow don,t think that happened.  Heard on the news today a Mother of two small children has just been convicted of their murders in Spain and jailed for 30 years Mothers do kill their children but must be very disturbed to do such a thing and sometimes they think they are doing the right thing depending what is going on in their head.  I would think the police have a much clearer idea what happened but they wont disclose that.

mertol22

  • Guest
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1041 on: July 04, 2012, 05:43:PM »
Hi AJ

I can't understand why Colin would think he was entitled to go through Sheila's things and have them. He was divorced from her. It was up to JB, what he did with her things at the time. I must admit JB was an arrogant sod there is no doubt about that in my eyes, but this does not make him a killer. Poor Colin was going through a horrible time in his life, one has to respect that.... I don't make up any excuses for JB'S behaviour, for I detach myself form him, like I do Colin and, tend to look at the facts and the evidence that is provided.

There was talk in the press about the fact that JB had tried to sell some nude photo's of Sheila.  The fact is no photo's were ever bought or published, which tells another story. Where those photo's are and, what happened to them, one can only guess, that the family had them in the end, unless JB let someone else keep them for him.

I find that Colin is not too sure about JB being the killer. His first instinct was that Sheila had finally done what she claimed to have wanted to do....but Colin, says there is no way she would have killed her children....but, on saying that why did she not protect them that night? Why did she not hold them or her mother and father....why did she not fight the appellant? Why was she in her parents room? Was she the first to be shot? If so why didn't her parents stop the killer from shooting her twice...the pathologist said the shoots were likely to have been made close together...surely NB would have jumped on JB or June would have.....it's all odd, something is not right.... :) :) :) :)
Hi Patti, i take and share your point about these pictures/slides exactly who owned them now ? who guides both of them through this storm in their lives, in claire powells book sheila begged a friend to allow her to use her back garden to allow photos to be taken are these the ones in question ? looking at jeremy now who may well die behind bars all this seems unimportant, but not at the time.

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1042 on: July 04, 2012, 05:54:PM »
Hi Patti  I find it very difficult to get my head round these murders I am convinced Jeremy was not responsible like you said he was an arrogant young silly fool in my opinion who did himself no favours and was is own worst enemy.  lookout brought a point out early that June had alot of blood on herself and on her feet and one does start to wonder.  But you would expect Sheila to protect her boys with her life unless she was killed first but somehow don,t think that happened.  Heard on the news today a Mother of two small children has just been convicted of their murders in Spain and jailed for 30 years Mothers do kill their children but must be very disturbed to do such a thing and sometimes they think they are doing the right thing depending what is going on in their head.  I would think the police have a much clearer idea what happened but they wont disclose that.

Hi Susan, I don't think JB murdered anyone. It must be so frustrating, not knowing what happened that night, even for him 27 years on....He is still trying to gain insight and find out what happened and fight the police in releasing the documents and video's.  Why wont they release them? Are they frightened that there might be something there that might exonerate him?  You are right Susan they wont discuss it...why?  :) :) :) :)

Hello by the way.... ;D ;D ;D

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1043 on: July 04, 2012, 05:57:PM »
Hi Patti, i take and share your point about these pictures/slides exactly who owned them now ? who guides both of them through this storm in their lives, in claire powells book sheila begged a friend to allow her to use her back garden to allow photos to be taken are these the ones in question ? looking at jeremy now who may well die behind bars all this seems unimportant, but not at the time.

Hi Mertol, are you any better? I think people misunderstand all the time, we are human after all...It's in our nature to assume or speculate possibilities. The fact that there was photo's and someone said JB had tried to sell them, put him in bad taste....But, no photo's were sold, not ever been released....So to me it is hearsay.... :) :) :) :)

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48670
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1044 on: July 04, 2012, 06:05:PM »
Hi Mertol, are you any better? I think people misunderstand all the time, we are human after all...It's in our nature to assume or speculate possibilities. The fact that there was photo's and someone said JB had tried to sell them, put him in bad taste....But, no photo's were sold, not ever been released....So to me it is hearsay.... :) :) :) :)

Patti,,the whole case was built on hearsay and assumptions,,and I think it's a disgrace.
Anyone with half a brain can work out that Jeremy didn't commit those murders.
 

Offline Bridget

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1045 on: July 04, 2012, 06:12:PM »
Patti,,the whole case was built on hearsay and assumptions,,and I think it's a disgrace.
Anyone with half a brain can work out that Jeremy didn't commit those murders.

Some of us with a whole one believe that he did. Others with whole ones believe that he didn't. Those with weak ones blame their failure to persuade others of their point of view on those others lack of mental capacity.
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline Bridget

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1046 on: July 04, 2012, 06:14:PM »
Hi Bridget

I agree to some degree  ;).   My recent posts on this thread have been about Sheila missing appointments, not heeding medical advice and not taking her prescribed medication.  These facts cannot be disputed unless of course Dr F was economical with the truth in his wit stat.  These facts do not mean that she must have had an episode on the night of the murders and therefore must have carried out the murders.  I certainly have never stated this.  Sheila's mental illness was not a constant feature of her mental state.  She could have carried out the murders during a period she was free of her illness.  There are of course all sort of possibilities eg her illness was misdiagnosed, she had an unidentified parallel illness, she suffered some temporary mental state whilst free from her diagnosed illness eg rage.

Another possibility is that Sheila was a victim and JB the perpetrator but I simply cannot buy into this.

That's probably as close to agreement as we're going to get! :)
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48670
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1047 on: July 04, 2012, 06:21:PM »
Some of us with a whole one believe that he did. Others with whole ones believe that he didn't. Those with weak ones blame their failure to persuade others of their point of view on those others lack of mental capacity.

Bridget,,,there's no evidence whatsoever to say that he did. Where is it.? Where is the concrete evidence that sealed his fate.? I'm failing to point a finger at him at all.

Offline Bridget

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1048 on: July 04, 2012, 06:22:PM »
Bridget,,,there's no evidence whatsoever to say that he did. Where is it.? Where is the concrete evidence that sealed his fate.? I'm failing to point a finger at him at all.

Of course there's evidence, you just don't accept it. That is of course your choice.
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF
« Reply #1049 on: July 04, 2012, 06:41:PM »
Some of us with a whole one believe that he did. Others with whole ones believe that he didn't. Those with weak ones blame their failure to persuade others of their point of view on those others lack of mental capacity.

Hi Bridget, even a whole one, can't give concrete evidence that JB was inside that house shooting his relatives....Give me some examples of evidence. 

I can give you plenty of evidence, with my 1/3 of a brain....Hic! lol

Windows
Silencer

being two of them......Oh and lets not forget the scratch makes under the mantle....who put them there?

 :) :) :)