The very best of luck to Jeremy

[Tracy.Jayne]

Hello matt, (sorry couldn't resist!)  I see you've been popular today!  Do you have an opinion on Jeremy's guilt?  I take on board what you say here, I'll believe you.

[guest154]

Hello matt, (sorry couldn't resist!)  I see you've been popular today!  Do you have an opinion on Jeremy's guilt?  I take on board what you say here, I'll believe you.

I think he's guilty. The coincidences in the foundations of the case have never sat too well with me. For example, the first day that I heard the phone in the bedroom has been removed - Jeremy claims that this was ebcause it had been damaged - but this wasn't true, the phone actually worked. The reason IMO that the phoen was removed from the bedroom of Ralph and June was so no one could make an emergency phone call from upstairs. I beleive this entirely and have lobbied for this to be considered since day one.

Even though I think he is guilty, I still accept there were major mistakes by the police and they tried to cover this up. Jeremy is using that to his advantage to try and murk the waters and give hismelf reasonable doubt. But he's guilty.

I;ll forever ensure I'm countering any evidcence sumbbitted, no matter who it is too.

But I have to be honest, it isn't hard at the moment. The CRCC submission was incomplete - how stupid is that? You submit something so important, so crucial.....but you get it wrong. Majorly wrong.

Jeremy has been let down by his own team. If the CRCC submission ever makes it way onto this forum, read it (ignore ALL the spelling mistakes).

You'll see Jeremy have been let down.

But I still beleive he killed his family.

[JackiePreece]

Mat I know quite about the submissions and can you let me know what you mean by he was let down by his team and he definitely was not let down by the barrister in question.
There were ridiculous politics involved which cost Jeremy about 3 months of time when the submissions could have been worked on

Please explain what you mean let down by his team

[guest154]

Let down simply because the submissions were incomplete. More tests needed to be carried out, when you're dealing with paper work like this the dates you state have to be correct, they have to be precise. You can't make mistakes.

When you send pages and pages of information off about a silencer and calim that it can not have been fitted on as 100% fact you need to be able to back it up.

If the CRCC were to get in touch with your expert and your expert claims (both openly and privately) that more tests NEED to be carried out. EVERYTHING that expert has said until more tests have been carried out will be dismissed.

[maggie]

Mat, your arguments are flawed, there is no sign in what you write that you have studied much of the evidence but just taken something you happened to read on face value and made your decision.  I always wonder why people who believe in Bambers guilt, tend to be adamant with no room for manoevre, while many who think JB is innocent are much more open to speculationm and theories.  This case is full of contradictions and requires enormous amounts of reading to form an opinion.  You are not being open minded at all.

[Neil]

I think he's guilty. The coincidences in the foundations of the case have never sat too well with me. For example, the first day that I heard the phone in the bedroom has been removed - Jeremy claims that this was ebcause it had been damaged - but this wasn't true, the phone actually worked. The reason IMO that the phoen was removed from the bedroom of Ralph and June was so no one could make an emergency phone call from upstairs. I beleive this entirely and have lobbied for this to be considered since day one.

Even though I think he is guilty, I still accept there were major mistakes by the police and they tried to cover this up. Jeremy is using that to his advantage to try and murk the waters and give hismelf reasonable doubt. But he's guilty.

I;ll forever ensure I'm countering any evidcence sumbbitted, no matter who it is too.

But I have to be honest, it isn't hard at the moment. The CRCC submission was incomplete - how stupid is that? You submit something so important, so crucial.....but you get it wrong. Majorly wrong.

Jeremy has been let down by his own team. If the CRCC submission ever makes it way onto this forum, read it (ignore ALL the spelling mistakes).

You'll see Jeremy have been let down.

But I still beleive he killed his family.

Thanks for your reply Mat,  Regarding the phones, do you not think that he would have replaced  the phone in the bedroom once he'd finished?  What you say about the submission is very interesting, you sound like you have good sources, can you confirm this?  I have been trying to muster up the courage to ask those on this forum, who would have a more informed opinion than me, what they think of Simon McKay.  As I understand it, he is working for free, which is obviously highly commendable, but does this mean that Jeremy is getting the very best legal help?  I would like to stress that I know nothing about Simon McKay and have therefore formed no opinion of him.

[maggie]

Mat you are rubbishing Simon McKay who is a highly qualified solicitor who has worked on many appeals.  Unfortunately by the time he took on JBs case pro bono there was not very much time left before the cut off from the CCRC.  It was not an appeal but a request for a referral for further work to be done for appeal.

[G]

I think he's guilty. The coincidences in the foundations of the case have never sat too well with me. For example, the first day that I heard the phone in the bedroom has been removed - Jeremy claims that this was ebcause it had been damaged - but this wasn't true, the phone actually worked. The reason IMO that the phoen was removed from the bedroom of Ralph and June was so no one could make an emergency phone call from upstairs. I beleive this entirely and have lobbied for this to be considered since day one.

Even though I think he is guilty, I still accept there were major mistakes by the police and they tried to cover this up. Jeremy is using that to his advantage to try and murk the waters and give hismelf reasonable doubt. But he's guilty.

I;ll forever ensure I'm countering any evidcence sumbbitted, no matter who it is too.

But I have to be honest, it isn't hard at the moment. The CRCC submission was incomplete - how stupid is that? You submit something so important, so crucial.....but you get it wrong. Majorly wrong.

Jeremy has been let down by his own team. If the CRCC submission ever makes it way onto this forum, read it (ignore ALL the spelling mistakes).

You'll see Jeremy have been let down.

But I still beleive he killed his family.

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was the kitchen phone that was out for repair and was collected a few days before and that the phone that was in the bedroom was the one that was in the kitchen?
In fact this is one of the in-consistences in Julie Mugford's statement. When she said that Jeremy had hired a killer she said in her statement that the kitchen phone was the only one that had a memory redial and that Jeremy had told her that the killer was to phone Jeremy from the farm when he had committed the murders so that Jeremy would have an alibi. The one thing she didn't know was that the kitchen phone the one with the memory redial was out for repair and had been substituted for the bedroom phone which as you rightly said worked.

[guest154]

Mat, your arguments are flawed, there is no sign in what you write that you have studied much of the evidence but just taken something you happened to read on face value and made your decision.  I always wonder why people who believe in Bambers guilt, tend to be adamant with no room for manoevre, while many who think JB is innocent are much more open to speculationm and theories.  This case is full of contradictions and requires enormous amounts of reading to form an opinion.  You are not being open minded at all.

Oh if you only knew...

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was the kitchen phone that was out for repair and was collected a few days before and that the phone that was in the bedroom was the one that was in the kitchen?
In fact this is one of the in-consistences in Julie Mugford's statement. When she said that Jeremy had hired a killer she said in her statement that the kitchen phone was the only one that had a memory redial and that Jeremy had told her that the killer was to phone Jeremy from the farm when he had committed the murders so that Jeremy would have an alibi. The one thing she didn't know was that the kitchen phone the one with the memory redial was out for repair and had been substituted for the bedroom phone which as you rightly said worked.

The bedroom phone was found hidden in a cupboard, I beleive. Without the case notes I can't rmember but it was hidden under some magazines. It worked although Jeremy did claim it didn't.

Thanks for your reply Mat,  Regarding the phones, do you not think that he would have replaced  the phone in the bedroom once he'd finished?  What you say about the submission is very interesting, you sound like you have good sources, can you confirm this?  I have been trying to muster up the courage to ask those on this forum, who would have a more informed opinion than me, what they think of Simon McKay.  As I understand it, he is working for free, which is obviously highly commendable, but does this mean that Jeremy is getting the very best legal help?  I would like to stress that I know nothing about Simon McKay and have therefore formed no opinion of him.

Neil - I have a couple of sources that I trust. But I'm officially involved on neither side of the appeall process.

Mat you are rubbishing Simon McKay who is a highly qualified solicitor who has worked on many appeals.  Unfortunately by the time he took on JBs case pro bono there was not very much time left before the cut off from the CCRC.  It was not an appeal but a request for a referral for further work to be done for appeal.

I'm not rubbishing Simon. But I am rubbishing the CRCC submission completely.

[maggie]

Thanks for your reply Mat,  Regarding the phones, do you not think that he would have replaced  the phone in the bedroom once he'd finished?  What you say about the submission is very interesting, you sound like you have good sources, can you confirm this?  I have been trying to muster up the courage to ask those on this forum, who would have a more informed opinion than me, what they think of Simon McKay.  As I understand it, he is working for free, which is obviously highly commendable, but does this mean that Jeremy is getting the very best legal help?  I would like to stress that I know nothing about Simon McKay and have therefore formed no opinion of him.

Neil JackiePreece is the person to ask about this, as she was responsible for introducing Jeremy to him.  I would say myself that I have learned S.McKay is a highly qualified solicitor with many successes behind him and the fact that he has told Jeremy he will stick with him and shown that much belief in JB speaks volumes.  I don't get this obsession by people who always seem to think they know better!!

[Roch]

Let down simply because the submissions were incomplete. More tests needed to be carried out, when you're dealing with paper work like this the dates you state have to be correct, they have to be precise. You can't make mistakes.

When you send pages and pages of information off about a silencer and calim that it can not have been fitted on as 100% fact you need to be able to back it up.

If the CRCC were to get in touch with your expert and your expert claims (both openly and privately) that more tests NEED to be carried out. EVERYTHING that expert has said until more tests have been carried out will be dismissed.

Digesting what you have posted here, it sounds like what has been done is to use any possible excuse not to refer.  Correct me if I am wrong but the further tests needed related to the burn marks upon Nevill?  These further tests were to provide absolute confirmation on that particular issue and were not relevant to the marks upon Sheila that indicated no moderator was involved in the shots she received.

Is there not a danger that this becomes a kind of pedantry, applied solely for the purpose of justifying a refusal and at the expense of recognising that no moderator was used in the shots to Sheila?

[JackiePreece]

You are spot on there Maggie

Neil
Our NGB  thinks very highly of Simon and our Ngb is a very experienced Criminal Barrister.
Jeremy decided to change lawyers late in the day but there is every indication from what I have read that Jeremy is very happy with Simon.

I stated in the the poll that I didn't believe the case would be referred this this time but I believe it will when the right people are in place running the campaign

[Patti]

I think he's guilty. The coincidences in the foundations of the case have never sat too well with me. For example, the first day that I heard the phone in the bedroom has been removed - Jeremy claims that this was ebcause it had been damaged - but this wasn't true, the phone actually worked. The reason IMO that the phoen was removed from the bedroom of Ralph and June was so no one could make an emergency phone call from upstairs. I beleive this entirely and have lobbied for this to be considered since day one.

Even though I think he is guilty, I still accept there were major mistakes by the police and they tried to cover this up. Jeremy is using that to his advantage to try and murk the waters and give hismelf reasonable doubt. But he's guilty.

I;ll forever ensure I'm countering any evidcence sumbbitted, no matter who it is too.

But I have to be honest, it isn't hard at the moment. The CRCC submission was incomplete - how stupid is that? You submit something so important, so crucial.....but you get it wrong. Majorly wrong.

Jeremy has been let down by his own team. If the CRCC submission ever makes it way onto this forum, read it (ignore ALL the spelling mistakes).

You'll see Jeremy have been let down.

But I still beleive he killed his family.

Hi Mat

The phones were knocked out because of lightening a BT engineer came to collect one of the phone. 

Two ladies that worked there said in their statements that the phones were never in their rightful place and it was usual practise to take the one from the bedroom as June did not get on with the other phone.

One of the ladies was asked by Jeremy to clear all the stuff up and she found a phone underneath some mags. She asked Jeremy about it and he said it might be a spare....at no time did he say it did not work....

So it was usual practice for the upstairs phone to be brought downstairs. Barbara Wilson and the farm secretary said this...

[maggie]

Mat, anyone can take that stance 'if only you knew' well if you know something why don't you tell us. You don't sound like a copper anymore you sound like a relative.........arrogant. Give people a bit of respect then and tell what you claim to know.

[Roch]

Also Mat, are you referring to the submissions prior to McKay's tenure?  The one's partially dismissed in the PSOR Feb2011?  I had thought that that work had been placed on the back burner and that the McKay submissions were a separate submission.