Essex Police's Credibility

[Nuala]

37.8C is 100.4 Fahrenheit. Generally a temperature of approx 140 F burns skin. This means a temperature as low 130 F can burn skin after 20 seconds.

Thanks, Campion, I had the impression that the temperature needs to be 200 C.

[Nuala]

she then opened the oven door and held the rifle in and heated it up till it was hot enough, then went back and burnt him to see if he was alive?

Signed statements tell us that during Sheila's psychotic episodes she believed that she, her sons, her family and at least one of her friends (Freddie) were possessed by the devil. We know that Sheila believed these devils (that she hallucinated) were capable of raping and harming her.

We know that Sheila told a young cousin that she was a white witch, that she told Nevill that she was the Virgin Mary and sent to save the world, that she asked Dr Ferguson to arrange exorcism for her and that Sheila had a history of violence during her psychotic episodes.

We also know that, one time when Sheila was sectioned under the Mental Health Act, she did not recognise her parents.

Who exactly did Sheila believe Nevill and June to be when she could not recognise them - devils?

Put all of the above together and I believe it does not stretch credulity at all to consider that:


1. A hallucinating Sheila may have burned Nevill to see if he was really dead and if 'the devil'
    possessing him had left him.

2.  Or that, in the depths of her hallucination, Sheila may have burned Nevill to ensure that the devil
     could not reinhabit him and bring him back to life.

3.  Witches, even children, were burned and branded - and still are in some cultures - because it was
     believed that fire release their demons and sorcery.

4.   Sheila may have seen all of the above as saving her family, herself and the world from evil.

5.   Or, Sheila may simply have wished to punish her father.


Incredible as this seems to you and I, if you have experience of psychotics, as I have, you will know that all of the above is sadly possible

[guest7363]

No need to be so incredulous, I'm just 5' tall, but I could beat the living daylights out of you, even if you're 6'3 and twice my weight and muscle power...if I first shot you.


Of course, I would never do this because, in common with Jeremy Bamber, I'm neither a brutalised, murderous type, nor am I severely psychotic.

Only a woman would make that sort of remark, sorry about the sexism

[campion]

 The Witch or Devils mark was believed to be the permanent marking of the Devil on his initiates to seal their obedience and service to him. He created the mark by raking his claw across the flesh, or by making a blue or red brand using a hot iron. The Devil was thought to mark the individual at the end of Nocturnal Initiation Rites.   

[ngb1066]

Now try placing the end of the barrel in the oven...

Experiments established that within 5 minutes the end of the barrel becomes hot enough to cause the three burns.

[mike tesko]

Experiments established that within 5 minutes the end of the barrel becomes hot enough to cause the three burns.

I am in favour of the rifles barrel having been rested against the aga oven for a period of about five minutes, and that this was the tool used to make the marks on the back of Ralph Bambers neck, after he was already dead and had been shot up to 8 times already......

[Nuala]

Experiments established that within 5 minutes the end of the barrel becomes hot enough to cause the three burns.

Thank you, NGB!

[Nuala]

Only a woman would make that sort of remark, sorry about the sexism

You have me bang to rights, Ralph  :D

[guest7363]

Experiments established that within 5 minutes the end of the barrel becomes hot enough to cause the three burns.

Is that with the oven door open or closed Neil, and  do you think that the aga would be that hot in august?

[maggie]

I am in favour of the rifles barrel having been rested against the aga oven for a period of about five minutes, and that this was the tool used to make the marks on the back of Ralph Bambers neck, after he was already dead and had been shot up to 8 times already......

Do you think Ralph was also beaten after he was dead, does the appearence of his injuries give any clues to this?

[Nuala]

Do you think Ralph was also beaten after he was dead, does the appearence of his injuries give any clues to this?

I believe this is one for Mertol, Maggie, he's our resident expert in this field.

Mertol, where are you? We need you!

[maggie]

I believe this is one for Mertol, Maggie, he's our resident expert in this field.

Mertol, where are you? We need you!

Yes Chock, I don't suppose it makes much difference to the case but it's helps to build a picture, I also hope for Ralph's sake that he was not alive by then.

[Nuala]

Yes Chock, I don't suppose it makes much difference to the case but it's helps to build a picture, I also hope for Ralph's sake that he was not alive by then.

I agree, Maggie, the more information we have, the better.

[grahameb]

Yes Chock, I don't suppose it makes much difference to the case but it's helps to build a picture, I also hope for Ralph's sake that he was not alive by then.

I personally think it is vital for the case. Since that was how the prosecution built up their case against Jeremy. They questioned Sheila's ability to fight with her 6 ft father saying that is was impossible for her to have done so. Indeed those who believe Jeremy to be guilty still use that argument. But if Ralph was dead already when he was beaten and received those burn marks then this could have turned the case round and quite frankly I don't know why the defence never pushed this point?

[maggie]

I personally think it is vital for the case. Since that was how the prosecution built up their case against Jeremy. They questioned Sheila's ability to fight with her 6 ft father saying that is was impossible for her to have done so. Indeed those who believe Jeremy to be guilty still use that argument. But if Ralph was dead already when he was beaten and received those burn marks then this could have turned the case round and quite frankly I don't know why the defence never pushed this point?

I do have worries about it myself. If Ralph was  badly injured, it may have been possible but I'm 5'8" and I know even when younger and really fit I couldn't have fought off a 6'4" man. Sheer body weight and muscle mass make it impossible. I actually don't think Jeremy could have fought off an uninjured Ralph either. I know