Could Someone other than Jeremy or Sheila have comitted the murders at WHF?

[clifford]

We don,t know if he had a smashed jaw at the time of the call.

[shonapugs]

Wasn't it JM who named Matthew McDonald? Perhaps she named the wrong guy. Perhaps JB found someone else, and didn't tell her.

[Alias]

Is he still so sure. A voice on the phone can sound different.

Not sure how people in general recognize voices, but I can say that I recognize voices over the telephone - even people I haven´t spoken with in years and certainly family members!
I think that people can recognize voices easily.

[simong]

Wasn't it JM who named Matthew McDonald? Perhaps she named the wrong guy. Perhaps JB found someone else, and didn't tell her.

Sorry for not replying in the other thread, here is as good a place as any to respond to your comment pugsy. I do think it was a third party that did this and my point in the other thread was that i don't think this was some highly professional hitman but a clown / opportunist. Whether Jeremy/Sheila/Third party did it, it was a fiasco.

[Alias]

Wasn't it JM who named Matthew McDonald? Perhaps she named the wrong guy. Perhaps JB found someone else, and didn't tell her.

How do you find hitmen?? They don´t put ads out... Finding one, OK, but another one, I don´t know!

[chelmsey]

I considered a third party scenario for a long time,but it always comes back to the phonecall doesnt it?
I was highly suspicious of the timing of the murders (granny Speakman on her death bed)! The Bamber family would become even more wealthy than they already were. And the fact that certain people were absolutely adamant that Sheila could not have been responsible even though they barely knew her.And the morning after the murders,when it seemed clear that the police were regarding the situation as 4 murders and a suicide,these certain persons immediately started their smear campaign.I must admit,it was all very suspicious in my opinion.

[shonapugs]

Hi, Si. 3..2..1.... you're back in the room! I have never thought that some super-dupe mercenary was involved, it could just have been some plonker in the pub or a druggie pal with no scruples and a need for a lump of cash. They only had to know the lay-out of the house and find some strategically-placed guns........

[nugnug]

leaving aside the inheritance for minute what about the bamber family's business dealings could that have given someone a reason to want them dead.

[shonapugs]

I'm not so sure, nugnug, you little tinker. Who are you really?

[boheme]

I am also leaning towards this scenario, did Jeremy and the hit man act together - I think Ralph and Sheila barricaded themselves in the kitchen to protect themselves from the killers who left them both for dead before leaving. Sheila may well have been still alive when the Police entered, how she ended up in the bedroom is a mystery though.

[haughton]

I have previously mentioned this "hunched figure". I'm convinced there was a third person. Neville was once an intellegence officer, maybe someone was out for revenge! It could be that Neville didn't see who was "going berzerk with the gun" he just assumed that it was Shiela.

[grahameb]

It all hinges uopn Jeremy's word that his father telephoned him. If we believe this to be true then this in itself rules out a "hitman". To my mind I have considered this at depth and thought it extremely unlikely.

[ceedeells]

It all hinges uopn Jeremy's word that his father telephoned him. If we believe this to be true then this in itself rules out a "hitman". To my mind I have considered this at depth and thought it extremely unlikely.

Not quite, Grahame. 

What 'if', a hitman where involved (not for a minute do I believe Jeremy hired him), but what if....and the hitman wanted JB dead too.

He needed Jeremy to come over, so got his father to phone him.  Now, 'what if'....the father's first call was to the Police.  Eg:  The hitman has told Neville to phone Jeremy,  Neville picks up the phone and start to dial.  During this Neville has a gun to his head/neck, which is where we get the marks from on Nevilles' neck.   The hitman thinks Neville is phoning Jeremy, however, the phone numbers are so similar, that Neville is in fact, phoning the POLICE...NOT Jeremy.   This also answers the question as to why Neville never called 999.

After a beating...Neville then phones Jeremy.

[grahameb]

It all hinges uopn Jeremy's word that his father telephoned him. If we believe this to be true then this in itself rules out a "hitman". To my mind I have considered this at depth and thought it extremely unlikely.

Not quite, Grahame. 

What 'if', a hitman where involved (not for a minute do I believe Jeremy hired him), but what if....and the hitman wanted JB dead too.

He needed Jeremy to come over, so got his father to phone him.  Now, 'what if'....the father's first call was to the Police.  Eg:  The hitman has told Neville to phone Jeremy,  Neville picks up the phone and start to dial.  During this Neville has a gun to his head/neck, which is where we get the marks from on Nevilles' neck.   The hitman thinks Neville is phoning Jeremy, however, the phone numbers are so similar, that Neville is in fact, phoning the POLICE...NOT Jeremy.   This also answers the question as to why Neville never called 999.

After a beating...Neville then phones Jeremy.

Yes I've also been thinking along these lines as well. See my post in this link:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1127.msg34718.html#msg34718

[Roch]

It all hinges uopn Jeremy's word that his father telephoned him. If we believe this to be true then this in itself rules out a "hitman". To my mind I have considered this at depth and thought it extremely unlikely.

Not quite, Grahame. 

What 'if', a hitman where involved (not for a minute do I believe Jeremy hired him), but what if....and the hitman wanted JB dead too.

He needed Jeremy to come over, so got his father to phone him.  Now, 'what if'....the father's first call was to the Police.  Eg:  The hitman has told Neville to phone Jeremy,  Neville picks up the phone and start to dial.  During this Neville has a gun to his head/neck, which is where we get the marks from on Nevilles' neck.   The hitman thinks Neville is phoning Jeremy, however, the phone numbers are so similar, that Neville is in fact, phoning the POLICE...NOT Jeremy.   This also answers the question as to why Neville never called 999.

After a beating...Neville then phones Jeremy.

Clever and interesting scenario.  Not a very pleasant one.  There's something horrific about the concept that the killings are premeditiated by a third party, as opposed to frenzied psychotic rage on the part of Sheila.  We are getting in to Law1 territory here.

p.s. Is law1 the alter ego of jailman?