Sheila's right arm and right hand too flexible at time photographed...

[Kaldin]

Another point that strikes me is... For everyone to believe that it was suicide the shots to her neck would have to be fired at the right angle...

One wrongly angled shot and the idea that it was suicide is blown apart.

IF Jeremy had killed her to make it look like suicide it was a massive risk that he could get those shots right... surely not an easy task... one wrong shot, defence wounds etc and his plan is useless...

Hi. I'm a newbie. I remember this case when it happened. I have to say, that at this point I am not sure of Jeremy Baber's innocence or guilt, as I do believe I don't know enough about the case to make that judgement.

However, I do think that there is a legitimate claim for him to receive a new trial, what with details being withheld from the prosecution by the defence and the Police. The Police also seemed to have made several cock ups in the investigation.

I agree with your point re: Shelia. I read in the 2002 appeal that she was taking Haloperidol, by means of a monthly injection. I don't know much about this drug, but it would be interesting to know at what dosage she was taking it and any potential side affects.

I agree with what you said about Bamber having to have taken a hell of a risk to make it look like a suicide.

My question is regarding the gun/shootings. Now it is a given that Jeremy was a good shot with a gun. There is some debate as to whether or not Shelia had ever shot a gun. My question is, if any one on here has handled a gun, how easy do you think it would be to shoot and make it look like the person handling the gun was not experienced (if you actually were an experienced shooter)?

I may be barking up the wrong tree here or being incredibly dense, but I am someone who has never handled a gun, so I just wondered how easy this would be to stage?

Hello!

I've never handled a gun in my life so I don't know much about them. One thing that strikes me about all this though is that every single shot hit someone. There were 25 wounds and 25 empty cases. I know they were reasonably close-range shots but even so ....

[mike tesko]

Another point that strikes me is... For everyone to believe that it was suicide the shots to her neck would have to be fired at the right angle...

One wrongly angled shot and the idea that it was suicide is blown apart.

IF Jeremy had killed her to make it look like suicide it was a massive risk that he could get those shots right... surely not an easy task... one wrong shot, defence wounds etc and his plan is useless...

Hi. I'm a newbie. I remember this case when it happened. I have to say, that at this point I am not sure of Jeremy Baber's innocence or guilt, as I do believe I don't know enough about the case to make that judgement.

However, I do think that there is a legitimate claim for him to receive a new trial, what with details being withheld from the prosecution by the defence and the Police. The Police also seemed to have made several cock ups in the investigation.

I agree with your point re: Shelia. I read in the 2002 appeal that she was taking Haloperidol, by means of a monthly injection. I don't know much about this drug, but it would be interesting to know at what dosage she was taking it and any potential side affects.

I agree with what you said about Bamber having to have taken a hell of a risk to make it look like a suicide.

My question is regarding the gun/shootings. Now it is a given that Jeremy was a good shot with a gun. There is some debate as to whether or not Shelia had ever shot a gun. My question is, if any one on here has handled a gun, how easy do you think it would be to shoot and make it look like the person handling the gun was not experienced (if you actually were an experienced shooter)?

I may be barking up the wrong tree here or being incredibly dense, but I am someone who has never handled a gun, so I just wondered how easy this would be to stage?

Hello!

I've never handled a gun in my life so I don't know much about them. One thing that strikes me about all this though is that every single shot hit someone. There were 25 wounds and 25 empty cases. I know they were reasonably close-range shots but even so ....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

most shots were inflicted or discharged either at close contact, or contact, so you could hardly miss, no matter how proficient a shot you might think you are...

The other shots which struck a victim - that were fired from a greater distance, how do you know that such bullets struck the intended target, or part of the victims body, that it was intended to hit or strike?

[Tricksy]

Hello!

I've never handled a gun in my life so I don't know much about them. One thing that strikes me about all this though is that every single shot hit someone. There were 25 wounds and 25 empty cases. I know they were reasonably close-range shots but even so ....

Hi.  :D Thanks for coming back to me on this.

You make a fair point, the shots did all hit. I know there was talk of Shelia having been on a shooting holiday.

Its a difficult one. If Bamber had been shooting, I would have expected him to have produced more fatal wounding in less shots.

However, if he were staging the shooting so that it looked like Shelia, I would have expected far more pot shots if you like. You make the incredibly good point that all shots wounded the victims. If I were to shoot a gun, given my lack of experience, I think I would have peppered the walls, the floor, that sort of thing.

So either Shelia had some shooting experience. Or the shots were staged?

[Tricksy]

Another point that strikes me is... For everyone to believe that it was suicide the shots to her neck would have to be fired at the right angle...

One wrongly angled shot and the idea that it was suicide is blown apart.

IF Jeremy had killed her to make it look like suicide it was a massive risk that he could get those shots right... surely not an easy task... one wrong shot, defence wounds etc and his plan is useless...

Hi. I'm a newbie. I remember this case when it happened. I have to say, that at this point I am not sure of Jeremy Baber's innocence or guilt, as I do believe I don't know enough about the case to make that judgement.

However, I do think that there is a legitimate claim for him to receive a new trial, what with details being withheld from the prosecution by the defence and the Police. The Police also seemed to have made several cock ups in the investigation.

I agree with your point re: Shelia. I read in the 2002 appeal that she was taking Haloperidol, by means of a monthly injection. I don't know much about this drug, but it would be interesting to know at what dosage she was taking it and any potential side affects.

I agree with what you said about Bamber having to have taken a hell of a risk to make it look like a suicide.

My question is regarding the gun/shootings. Now it is a given that Jeremy was a good shot with a gun. There is some debate as to whether or not Shelia had ever shot a gun. My question is, if any one on here has handled a gun, how easy do you think it would be to shoot and make it look like the person handling the gun was not experienced (if you actually were an experienced shooter)?

I may be barking up the wrong tree here or being incredibly dense, but I am someone who has never handled a gun, so I just wondered how easy this would be to stage?

Hello!

I've never handled a gun in my life so I don't know much about them. One thing that strikes me about all this though is that every single shot hit someone. There were 25 wounds and 25 empty cases. I know they were reasonably close-range shots but even so ....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

most shots were inflicted or discharged either at close contact, or contact, so you could hardly miss, no matter how proficient a shot you might think you are...

The other shots which struck a victim - that were fired from a greater distance, how do you know that such bullets struck the intended target, or part of the victims body, that it was intended to hit or strike?

I have to say, I don't know how close the shots were fired from. I have read some of the case but not all of it.

It was just something I was mulling around in my own head.

[Kaldin]

Hello!

I've never handled a gun in my life so I don't know much about them. One thing that strikes me about all this though is that every single shot hit someone. There were 25 wounds and 25 empty cases. I know they were reasonably close-range shots but even so ....

Hi.  :D Thanks for coming back to me on this.

You make a fair point, the shots did all hit. I know there was talk of Shelia having been on a shooting holiday.

Its a difficult one. If Bamber had been shooting, I would have expected him to have produced more fatal wounding in less shots.

However, if he were staging the shooting so that it looked like Shelia, I would have expected far more pot shots if you like. You make the incredibly good point that all shots wounded the victims. If I were to shoot a gun, given my lack of experience, I think I would have peppered the walls, the floor, that sort of thing.

So either Shelia had some shooting experience. Or the shots were staged?

Yes! I think that if Sheila did it there would have been pot shots because she must have been in a bit of a state, and if Jeremy did it he would have done some pot shots too to make it look like Sheila did it.

[mike tesko]

Hello!

I've never handled a gun in my life so I don't know much about them. One thing that strikes me about all this though is that every single shot hit someone. There were 25 wounds and 25 empty cases. I know they were reasonably close-range shots but even so ....

Hi.  :D Thanks for coming back to me on this.

You make a fair point, the shots did all hit. I know there was talk of Shelia having been on a shooting holiday.

Its a difficult one. If Bamber had been shooting, I would have expected him to have produced more fatal wounding in less shots.

However, if he were staging the shooting so that it looked like Shelia, I would have expected far more pot shots if you like. You make the incredibly good point that all shots wounded the victims. If I were to shoot a gun, given my lack of experience, I think I would have peppered the walls, the floor, that sort of thing.

So either Shelia had some shooting experience. Or the shots were staged?

------------------------------------------

With respect, if you pulled the trigger of the gun, and the end of the barrel was in a contact, or close contact position, I doubt very much that you would miss theb, target, or pepper the walls, as you put it...

[Tricksy]

I bet you I would!

Based on my experiences from firing air rifles alone, many years ago, I am useless! 

[Kaldin]

Hello!

I've never handled a gun in my life so I don't know much about them. One thing that strikes me about all this though is that every single shot hit someone. There were 25 wounds and 25 empty cases. I know they were reasonably close-range shots but even so ....

Hi.  :D Thanks for coming back to me on this.

You make a fair point, the shots did all hit. I know there was talk of Shelia having been on a shooting holiday.

Its a difficult one. If Bamber had been shooting, I would have expected him to have produced more fatal wounding in less shots.

However, if he were staging the shooting so that it looked like Shelia, I would have expected far more pot shots if you like. You make the incredibly good point that all shots wounded the victims. If I were to shoot a gun, given my lack of experience, I think I would have peppered the walls, the floor, that sort of thing.

So either Shelia had some shooting experience. Or the shots were staged?

------------------------------------------

With respect, if you pulled the trigger of the gun, and the end of the barrel was in a contact, or close contact position, I doubt very much that you would miss theb, target, or pepper the walls, as you put it...

Presumably the victims weren't just standing there - well not Neville or June anyway. In the kitchen if there was a fight, the chances of a few bullets going astray would be quite high in my opinion.

[Tricksy]

Kaldin, thats what I would have thought too.

In a scuffle, I would have expected shots in the ceiling or walls, etc.

[mike tesko]

Hello!

I've never handled a gun in my life so I don't know much about them. One thing that strikes me about all this though is that every single shot hit someone. There were 25 wounds and 25 empty cases. I know they were reasonably close-range shots but even so ....

Hi.  :D Thanks for coming back to me on this.

You make a fair point, the shots did all hit. I know there was talk of Shelia having been on a shooting holiday.

Its a difficult one. If Bamber had been shooting, I would have expected him to have produced more fatal wounding in less shots.

However, if he were staging the shooting so that it looked like Shelia, I would have expected far more pot shots if you like. You make the incredibly good point that all shots wounded the victims. If I were to shoot a gun, given my lack of experience, I think I would have peppered the walls, the floor, that sort of thing.

So either Shelia had some shooting experience. Or the shots were staged?

------------------------------------------

With respect, if you pulled the trigger of the gun, and the end of the barrel was in a contact, or close contact position, I doubt very much that you would miss theb, target, or pepper the walls, as you put it...

Presumably the victims weren't just standing there - well not Neville or June anyway. In the kitchen if there was a fight, the chances of a few bullets going astray would be quite high in my opinion.

-----------------------------

Not if there were no more bullets left in the guns ammunition magazine - since, after the first ten (10) bullets had been discharged from the gun, it needed to be reloaded. You could hardly fire off a few loose shots into the ceiling if there were no bullets in the gun to discharge from it...

[mike tesko]

Kaldin, thats what I would have thought too.

In a scuffle, I would have expected shots in the ceiling or walls, etc.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If, as alleged by the prosecution, any struggle ensued in the kitchen between Ralph and his killer, there would be no more bullets left in the gun by the time the shooter got downstairs into the kitchen with a view to reloading the gun with bullets, that were situated on the kitchen worktop, close to the phone...

You would not be able to fire loose bullets into the ceiling, because there were no more bullets in the gun until it was reloaded...

It should be borne in mind that the only opportunity for the shooter to become engaged in some sort of a struggle with Ralph Bamber, was at a time when the gun needed to be reloaded with bullets...

[Kaldin]

Hello!

I've never handled a gun in my life so I don't know much about them. One thing that strikes me about all this though is that every single shot hit someone. There were 25 wounds and 25 empty cases. I know they were reasonably close-range shots but even so ....

Hi.  :D Thanks for coming back to me on this.

You make a fair point, the shots did all hit. I know there was talk of Shelia having been on a shooting holiday.

Its a difficult one. If Bamber had been shooting, I would have expected him to have produced more fatal wounding in less shots.

However, if he were staging the shooting so that it looked like Shelia, I would have expected far more pot shots if you like. You make the incredibly good point that all shots wounded the victims. If I were to shoot a gun, given my lack of experience, I think I would have peppered the walls, the floor, that sort of thing.

So either Shelia had some shooting experience. Or the shots were staged?

------------------------------------------

With respect, if you pulled the trigger of the gun, and the end of the barrel was in a contact, or close contact position, I doubt very much that you would miss theb, target, or pepper the walls, as you put it...

Presumably the victims weren't just standing there - well not Neville or June anyway. In the kitchen if there was a fight, the chances of a few bullets going astray would be quite high in my opinion.

-----------------------------

Not if there were no more bullets left in the guns ammunition magazine - since, after the first ten (10) bullets had been discharged from the gun, it needed to be reloaded. You could hardly fire off a few loose shots into the ceiling if there were no bullets in the gun to discharge from it...

According to you, Neville was only shot once before the gun had to be reloaded. Obviously, I meant after the gun had been reloaded with ten more bullets. Neville would still have been in a position to fight with his attacker.

[Kaldin]

If, as alleged by the prosecution, any struggle ensued in the kitchen between Ralph and his killer, there would be no more bullets left in the gun by the time the shooter got downstairs into the kitchen with a view to reloading the gun with bullets, that were situated on the kitchen worktop, close to the phone...

You would not be able to fire loose bullets into the ceiling, because there were no more bullets in the gun until it was reloaded...

It should be borne in mind that the only opportunity for the shooter to become engaged in some sort of a struggle with Ralph Bamber, was at a time when the gun needed to be reloaded with bullets...

And what happened after that? Neville just stood there and let someone shoot him?

[mike tesko]

If, as alleged by the prosecution, any struggle ensued in the kitchen between Ralph and his killer, there would be no more bullets left in the gun by the time the shooter got downstairs into the kitchen with a view to reloading the gun with bullets, that were situated on the kitchen worktop, close to the phone...

You would not be able to fire loose bullets into the ceiling, because there were no more bullets in the gun until it was reloaded...

It should be borne in mind that the only opportunity for the shooter to become engaged in some sort of a struggle with Ralph Bamber, was at a time when the gun needed to be reloaded with bullets...

And what happened after that? Neville just stood there and let someone shoot him?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

He did not, no, there was the struggle that everyone has been talking about, at the end of which Ralph may have gone back upstairs to tend to June and the children, without knowing that all three were already dead...

[bb2010]

Remind me -

Hadn't Ralph taken a beating with the butt end of the rifle?
Didn't the butt end of the rifle get broken?