Author Topic: A Question For Hartley  (Read 12220 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jackiepreece

  • Guest
A Question For Hartley
« on: January 15, 2012, 06:13:PM »
Hartley
Apparently you have been accused of being someone, I just wondered who you have been accused of being and where did this information come from

I think you could be a relative just like I think Shona could be

I am just interested because I was looking at a post that has the saying something like ' he who protests too much'

If you are a relative you could be a number of people going by your age but I suppose it's more likely you are one of the main members of the family which narrows it down even further

I must have missed some posts because I don't know accused who of what

Hartley

  • Guest
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 12:38:PM »
I'm not really seeing a question here.  :-\

I can however confirm that I am definitely someone.

Jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 12:50:PM »
Hartley you keep saying on the forum that you are not the person people think you are

I take it  you are saying certain people are saying you are one of the relatives

Hartley what is the name of the relative you are wrongly being accused of

It's an easy question

Hartley

  • Guest
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 01:10:PM »
Hartley you keep saying on the forum that you are not the person people think you are

I take it  you are saying certain people are saying you are one of the relatives

Hartley what is the name of the relative you are wrongly being accused of

It's an easy question

Jackie, you are well aware that I have been accused of being many different people, you can search the forum for such accusations to your hearts content.

I don't keep saying anything to be fair, but I can't control what other people post, perhaps you are addressing the wrong person, or people.

You are wasting your time I'm afraid.  :P

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 01:32:PM »
As I've said before. Hartley can be whatever he wants to be, as sure as I am Napoleon IV. I don't want to start an argument here with my learned friend. But the part that I am curious about is that he simply will not contemplate or at least be that bit interested as to why so much evidence and such a great deal of material was held back from the jury at the trial. In my opinion I would think that to be a gross miscarriage of justice in and of itself? And in and of itself amounts to a miscarriage of justice. Furthermore suspicion must be thrown upon the CCRC itself that they should be so blind so as not to recognise that as such?

We forget these are only men. Men in authority, granted. But it is this very fact that they do hold such high positions in society that make it such a serious issue and should carry with it such a heavy penalty that goes with that responsibility. I although as an ordinary citizen of this country dare to suggest that the CCRC should be charged with contempt of court. For they are a body unelected by us the people. Yet are the servants of us the people we should be able to bring the CCRC to justice for their continued obstruction of justice by misusing that law which was designed to see that justice is done.
Now you may think me to be unbalance to suggest such a thing? But nevertheless that is what I believe to be happening here?

Hartley

  • Guest
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 02:25:PM »
But the part that I am curious about is that he simply will not contemplate or at least be that bit interested as to why so much evidence and such a great deal of material was held back from the jury at the trial. In my opinion I would think that to be a gross miscarriage of justice in and of itself? And in and of itself amounts to a miscarriage of justice.

You see I find that part of your post to be slightly strange, considering I have made many lengthy posts on the subject.

Whether something was presented to the Jury or not is unimportant and perhaps highlights your lack of understanding. A more relevant argument would be to ask why something had been withheld from the defence team, thus removing their opportunity to present such evidence to the Jury.

As I have said before on many occasions, I believe the phrase 'It's been withheld under PII' to be grossly overused, I believe that many of the documents claimed to be unavailable, were actually very much available at the original trial, this is very clear by the fact that much of the information is actually contained in trial transcripts, applications to the court of appeal and appeal judgements, a long time before they are claimed to have been released.

Another important factor to consider, is that not a single piece of information or evidence which has been released, indicates that a miscarriage of justice has occurred in this case. That is not simply my opinion, but is taken from the fact that despite two appeals and the current submission to the CCRC, Jeremy's conviction and sentence remains intact.
The upcoming decision of the CCRC will likely reaffirm this point.

There is nothing which has come to light which detracts from the prosecutions case and subsequent Appeal Judgements, I do not automatically consider that something may be withheld and may possibly contain something to contradict this. Something cannot be disclosed if it does not exist.

In my humble opinion.

Jackiepreece

  • Guest
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 02:32:PM »
Grahame
One thing I have learnt is policeman lie and they lie on a regular basis and because they are policeman they believe it's ok to lie and another think I believe the majority of them would lie to cover up for mates however big the lies become.

The justice system as it is needs a serious makeover particularly the appeals system it's very frightening when you are a member of this forum how many miscarriages of justice there are.  If you look at the JB case and to me it's quite a high profile case yet so much has been covered up so how many not so well known MOJ are there


There is a drastic need for another Rough Justice programme and the sooner the better

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17579
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 02:47:PM »
Quote
Another important factor to consider, is that not a single piece of information or evidence which has been released, indicates that a miscarriage of justice has occurred in this case. That is not simply my opinion, but is taken from the fact that despite two appeals and the current submission to the CCRC, Jeremy's conviction and sentence remains intact.
The upcoming decision of the CCRC will likely reaffirm this point.

I wouldn't fancy watching you use this same reasoning to Eddie Gilfoyle.  Well I would... but only at a safe distance.

 

Hartley

  • Guest
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 02:53:PM »
I wouldn't fancy watching you use this same reasoning to Eddie Gilfoyle.  Well I would... but only at a safe distance.

That's a rather daft post Rochy, to state that because something was withheld in another case that upon it's release proved the authorities got it wrong, is not an argument to be used in yet another case without sufficient justification.

There is no argument from me that miscarriages of justice occur, however there is no evidence which indicates that one has occurred on this occasion.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 03:36:PM by Hartley »

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17579
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 02:57:PM »
That's a rather daft post Rochy, to state that because something was withheld in another case that upon it's release proved the authorities got it wrong, is not an argument to be used in another case without sufficient justification.

There is no argument from me that miscarriages of justice occur, however there is no evidence which indicates that one has occurred on this occasion.

I think you've just shot your self in the foot mate.  Two fold.   And if you cant see why that is, I'm not going to point it out to you.

Hartley

  • Guest
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 03:06:PM »
I think you've just shot your self in the foot mate.  Two fold.   And if you cant see why that is, I'm not going to point it out to you.

Yes I missed out the word 'yet' before 'another case'.

Is that really what you are stooping to now?

mertol22

  • Guest
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 03:11:PM »
Grahame
One thing I have learnt is policeman lie and they lie on a regular basis and because they are policeman they believe it's ok to lie and another think I believe the majority of them would lie to cover up for mates however big the lies become.

The justice system as it is needs a serious makeover particularly the appeals system it's very frightening when you are a member of this forum how many miscarriages of justice there are.  If you look at the JB case and to me it's quite a high profile case yet so much has been covered up so how many not so well known MOJ are there


There is a drastic need for another Rough Justice programme and the sooner the better
Jackie on the police bit i will post later something, as to Hartley i do not think he has anything to do with the family, his replies to me are automated  devoid of any drop of debate a person innert to reason, however thats his choice, i for one think very different no offence harts.

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17579
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 03:13:PM »
Yes I missed out the word 'yet' before 'another case'.

Is that really what you are stooping to now?

You've lost me with that one.

Newbury1

  • Guest
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 03:20:PM »
I think you've just shot your self in the foot mate.  Two fold.   And if you cant see why that is, I'm not going to point it out to you.

Roch, any chance you could point it out to the Forum? I, for one, don't know what you are getting at!

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: A Question For Hartley
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2012, 03:28:PM »
Roch, any chance you could point it out to the Forum? I, for one, don't know what you are getting at!
Me too Roch. I'm a bit thick to boot. :D