Police received screaming and ranting responses from inside farmhouse

[smiffy]

Why not just ask 'Z' ?? If he took a picture of her on the bed with only one shot to her neck, there's a fair chance he was there when she was shot by the police. David Shaw should be able to confirm all this from the raid team members he's spoken to, but didn't feel that Sheila running around the house screaming and shouting was significant enough to include in his unpublished work.

vidvic....Where on earth do you get the claim from that "z" took the picture of Sheila on the bed?
I have read what Mike has reported on the claims by "Z" and I have seen no such claim other than "Z" being in possesion of such photographs etc but nothing on who took them.

I hope your not confusing things or trying to attribute claims to Mike or "Z" that were never made in order to discredit them. 

[Hartley]

vidvic....Where on earth do you get the claim from that "z" took the picture of Sheila on the bed?
I have read what Mike has reported on the claims by "Z" and I have seen no such claim other than "Z" being in possesion of such photographs etc but nothing on who took them.

I hope your not confusing things or trying to attribute claims to Mike or "Z" that were never made in order to discredit them.

Smiffy, I think he is referring to David Shaw's theories which appear to be incompatible with 'Z's claims.

I don't think he is trying to discredit anything.

[tyler]

Smiffy, I think he is referring to David Shaw's theories which appear to be incompatible with 'Z's claims.

I don't think he is trying to discredit anything.

Why can you never let him answer for himself?

[mike tesko]

Mike...........are you absolutely certain that there was a Dr.Harris at the scene? Only,there was a Chief Superintendent Harris there that was comforting Jeremy before Dr.Craig could see to him.

I am certain that in email correspondence between David Shaw and myself, that he mentioned to me that a Dr Harris attended to Sheila, he was not talking about DCI “George” Harris? I specially asked Shaw about the role played by Dr Harris at the scene, asking him if he was getting confused with the role played by the police surgeon, Dr Craig? No, said he, he was not mistaking the role of Craig for Harris, or vice versa, and he wasn`t mistaking Dr Harris for DCI Harris, but he would not elaborate any further about the role he played at the scene, other than to say it was not necessary for me to know why. Dr Harris was at the scene, or what role he played, only that he was there...

[tyler]

I am certain that in email correspondence between David Shaw and myself, that he mentioned to me that a Dr Harris attended to Sheila, he was not talking about DCI “George” Harris? I specially asked Shaw about the role played by Dr Harris at the scene, asking him if he was getting confused with the role played by the police surgeon, Dr Craig? No, said he, he was not mistaking the role of Craig for Harris, or vice versa, and he wasn`t mistaking Dr Harris for DCI Harris, but he would not elaborate any further about the role he played at the scene, other than to say it was not necessary for me to know why. Dr Harris was at the scene, or what role he played, only that he was there...

Do you think there could be a link between this Dr.Harris,the shooting incident in the kitchen and an ambulance requested for immediate use?

[mike tesko]

Do you think there could be a link between this Dr.Harris,the shooting incident in the kitchen and an ambulance requested for immediate use?

Yes, as a result of information received from another source, I am convinced that the presence of this Dr Harris at the scene, was/is linked to the second shot received by Sheila under the chin, and that he could have been at the scene since a much earlier time, for example, he could have either been there before 6.30am when things took a turn for the worse, and a shot having been discharged in the kitchen, and whY it was felt necessary to summon an ambulance to the scene for immediate use, whilst summoning a second ambulance to the scene on standby. This suggests to me that police were aware that a shot or a series of shots had been fired in the kitchen at around 6.30am, hence why police requested an ambulance to attend scene immediately?

I think Dr Harris could have been at the scene at that stage, probably called out to the scene to deal with Sheila`s mental health issues?

[vidvic]

vidvic....Where on earth do you get the claim from that "z" took the picture of Sheila on the bed?
I have read what Mike has reported on the claims by "Z" and I have seen no such claim other than "Z" being in possesion of such photographs etc but nothing on who took them.

I hope your not confusing things or trying to attribute claims to Mike or "Z" that were never made in order to discredit them.

You are correct Smiffy in that It's not claimed that 'Z' actually took the photo which he has shown to Mike, but someone did and it's directly incompatible with David Shaw's piece.

[Roch]

You are correct Smiffy in that It's not claimed that 'Z' actually took the photo which he has shown to Mike, but someone did and it's directly incompatible with David Shaw's piece.

What inferences could be taken from 'Z' being incompatible with Shaw?  I think numerous ones, which fall upon both sides of the divide. 

[Hartley]

What inferences could be taken from 'Z' being incompatible with Shaw?  I think numerous ones, which fall upon both sides of the divide.

The inferences which can be taken are simply that at different times Mike has put theories forward based on information from both sources which are incompatible with each other. Therefore it cannot be denied that regarding individual aspects of these theories, either 'Z' or 'David Shaw' is incorrect. It could also then be inferred, that it is not an unreasonable possibility that both are incorrect.

I'd say the same if their information showed Jeremy to be guilty, without evidence, these types or reports are not worth a bean.

[mike tesko]

You are correct Smiffy in that It's not claimed that 'Z' actually took the photo which he has shown to Mike, but someone did and it's directly incompatible with David Shaw's piece.

I think my latest informants account, fills in the missing pieces of the jigsaw which Shaws account leaves out for reasons best known to himself, and the officers who provided him with information, and any motive such officers may have had to tell Shaw what they told hIm...

I think both accounts are not necessarily incompatible with one another , since they might not be describing the same parts of this covert operation...

[Newbury1]

What inferences could be taken from 'Z' being incompatible with Shaw?  I think numerous ones, which fall upon both sides of the divide.

Roch - I hope I don't sound too Hartleyesque, but are you suggesting comparing one set of unsubstantiated theory with another?

What will this achieve, other than discussion simply for discussion purposes!

[mike tesko]

I would like to put on record that any theories Or ideas I had before David Shaw contacted me, were posted pon other internet sites, and that Shaw contacted because he said that 90% of what I had been saying was true. From that point on, I merely asked him a series of questions, to try and elicit as much information as possible from him. Some of the questions I asked of Shaw were not necessarily my beliefs, I was merely asking such questions of him with a view to eliminating possibilities - for these reasons everyone should proceed with caution before taking on board what the numpty`s have been saying about it...

[grahameb]

You are correct Smiffy in that It's not claimed that 'Z' actually took the photo which he has shown to Mike, but someone did and it's directly incompatible with David Shaw's piece.

I don't know if such a picture exists? Mike said he's seen it and I must take what he says on trust. The only indication that she was on the bed is on one of the pictures of Sheila with the gun across her. There are distinctive blood stains on the bed clothes as if someone had slid her onto the floor? The bedclothes have been moved in one of the other pictures.

[tonyb]

I don't know if such a picture exists? Mike said he's seen it and I must take what he says on trust. The only indication that she was on the bed is on one of the pictures of Sheila with the gun across her. There are distinctive blood stains on the bed clothes as if someone had slid her onto the floor? The bedclothes have been moved in one of the other pictures.

Its only the "slid her onto the floor" that made me reply. if some one is in respiratory arrest you would slide them onto a hard surface in an attempt to revive them

[Roch]

The inferences which can be taken are simply that at different times Mike has put theories forward based on information from both sources which are incompatible with each other. Therefore it cannot be denied that regarding individual aspects of these theories, either 'Z' or 'David Shaw' is incorrect. It could also then be inferred, that it is not an unreasonable possibility that both are incorrect.

I'd say the same if their information showed Jeremy to be guilty, without evidence, these types or reports are not worth a bean.

Nick / Hartley...If only the police would release the 'cover up' file.  Then we could at least substantiate  some of these claims.  It's so frustrating.