The Role of DCI "Terry" Gibbons, at the scene - 7th August 1985...

[Alias]

The basics are...some action at Ralph's end caused the call to JB to end.
Silly  "if" nothing happened claims dint wash.. as if nothing happened then the line would have remained open.
Not sure on what effect the phone being disconnected at its junction box temporarily would have...would depend on what equipment was actually installed in the house.
In the photos of the phone its lead looks out of place as though it has been disturbed.

Hadn't the EP used this phone before this photo was taken?

Might mean nothing, but the handset is to the left of the cradle. Who if anyone was left handed.

I have no idea. But we really cannot put too much into how the handset is placed, since it must have been placed by EP after they used it.
If it is in the same position as when they entered the house, it is still hard to make anything of it. The person (presumably right handed) using it might have turned around and putting it on the table in/after that movement.

Iowas suggesting that a right handed person would have placed the phone to right of the cradle, and visa verse etc

Yes, I know. But the person (Ralph, if we assume Sheila did it) could have turned around - I don't think you would be on the phone facing the wall with another person going crazy with a gun. You would be facing the room. Either that or turning around when hearing someone entering the kitchen. That would be consistent with a right handed person - or it could have been a left handed person facing the wall (I don't think that is likely, but not impossible)
We really have no way of knowing. And it certainly doesn't help that the EP moved things around.

On a side note, it is so sad to see the paper castle, a paper crown (I think) and a treasure map (?)
The twins must have been playing with this, it looks home made, very creative boys, if they made them.

[lucy70]

lucy70...fact is the police did have access to itemised phone records...no good denying it.

If there was no phone call the police would have used it in evidence. The fact they did not use this in evidence is that it supported what JB claimed. To still attempt to convict and hide their cover up...they had to bury this evidence and claim wrongly that they did not have it.

Show me proof that EP had access to itemised billing because despite Mike's claims of holding itemised bills up to (funny is only up to) August, they have not been posted even though many people have asked them to be.
You seem to be forgetting that on that morning EP had completely bought into JB's story that his sister had gone crazy and totally thought it was four murders and a suicide so in that case why would they then be 'fitting' up JB since they believed him to be innocent at that time?

[smiffy]

Itemised phone bills were available in areas served by digital exchanges in 1984...
so the existence of an earlier bill is proof enough that EP had the info to hand.

[lucy70]

Itemised phone bills were available in areas served by digital exchanges in 1984...
so the existence of an earlier bill is proof enough that EP had the info to hand.

This is like pulling teeth!!
Show me the actual evidence (not just your belief) that EP had this information for WHF.
Already know that you won't be able to as it doesn't exist.

[mike tesko]

Another thing to consider - we now know that DS "Stan" Jones, took a photograph at the scene, of the phone on the worktop, this photograph had the exhibit reference, SBJ/2 (subsequently destroyed as part of the cover up). What I want to know, is what status was the kitchen phone in, when DS Jones, took this picture? Also, what time on 7th August 1985, did he take this (SBJ/3) picture? Was the handset sat upon its cradle? Were the plungers locked in a downward position? Was the handset laid on the kitchen worktop in a totally different position? What was so secret about DS Jones taking a picture in the kktchen area that morning?

[mike tesko]

Itemised phone bills were available in areas served by digital exchanges in 1984...
so the existence of an earlier bill is proof enough that EP had the info to hand.

This is like pulling teeth!!
Show me the actual evidence (not just your belief) that EP had this information for WHF.
Already know that you won't be able to as it doesn't exist.

---------------

Itemized bills do exist...

[bob]

lucy70...fact is the police did have access to itemised phone records...no good denying it.

No they didn't.

[mike tesko]

lucy70...fact is the police did have access to itemised phone records...no good denying it.

No they didn't.

-------------------

Police documents prove that police did have access to itemized bills, otherwise police documents are false...

[shonapugs]

OMG, Lucy. Thank goodness that someone is standing up to the condescending nut-job that is Smiffy.

[bob]

lucy70...fact is the police did have access to itemised phone records...no good denying it.

If there was no phone call the police would have used it in evidence. The fact they did not use this in evidence is that it supported what JB claimed. To still attempt to convict and hide their cover up...they had to bury this evidence and claim wrongly that they did not have it.

You seem to be forgetting that on that morning EP had completely bought into JB's story that his sister had gone crazy and totally thought it was four murders and a suicide so in that case why would they then be 'fitting' up JB since they believed him to be innocent at that time?

This is something you never get a sensible answer about Lucy - for some reason we are to believe they set about moving bodies, covering up valuable forensics and falisfying statements almost immediately after entry to the building - even though for weeks afterwards they continued to treat it as a murder-suicide.

[bob]

OMG, Lucy. Thank goodness that someone is standing up to the condescending nut-job that is Smiffy.

Anyone who believes JB is guilty should probably just leave Smiffy to it - his "analysis" of the evidence  would cause even the most ardent pro-JB believer to think twice 

[bob]

lucy70...fact is the police did have access to itemised phone records...no good denying it.

No they didn't.

-------------------

Police documents prove that police did have access to itemized bills, otherwise police documents are false...

I stand ready to be corrected then Mike. Are these documents posted on the forum?

[mike tesko]

lucy70...fact is the police did have access to itemised phone records...no good denying it.

If there was no phone call the police would have used it in evidence. The fact they did not use this in evidence is that it supported what JB claimed. To still attempt to convict and hide their cover up...they had to bury this evidence and claim wrongly that they did not have it.

You seem to be forgetting that on that morning EP had completely bought into JB's story that his sister had gone crazy and totally thought it was four murders and a suicide so in that case why would they then be 'fitting' up JB since they believed him to be innocent at that time?

This is something you never get a sensible answer about Lucy - for some reason we are to believe they set about moving bodies, covering up valuable forensics and falisfying statements almost immediately after entry to the building - even though for weeks afterwards they continued to treat it as a murder-suicide.

-------------

But the police did move bodies, and the bible etc, in accordance with what three different police officers who were members of the raid team, told COLP in 1991:-

[mike tesko]

lucy70...fact is the police did have access to itemised phone records...no good denying it.

No they didn't.

-------------------

Police documents prove that police did have access to itemized bills, otherwise police documents are false...

I stand ready to be corrected then Mike. Are these documents posted on the forum?

-------------------

I am not being awkward or evasive, but until the CCRC makes its decision I cannot post the full itemized phone bills for the phone at whf or from Jeremy's cottage - however, I am prepared to post copies of police records which mention the existence of these, certainly...

documents currently being sourced and uploaded to server

[lucy70]

OMG, Lucy. Thank goodness that someone is standing up to the condescending nut-job that is Smiffy.

Thanks Shona :-) Have to say that find his whole 'I read it so it must be true' BS annoying and his insults pretty amusing as they're so lame!