jimmy savilles dead

[susan]

Hi Roch

I think as he became more popular due to raising money for charity he had an ulterior motive for the hospital charity work it was easy access to prey on innocent vunerable young girls which he thought was his right as he was being allowed to get away with it disgusting individual.  I wonder was this behaviour in the genes!!!!

[Roch]

How interesting, that this has only been fully exposed after his death and that the BBC both pulled the plug on an investigation that was being made as the same time as a tribute program!  And that they initially tried to deny having knowledge by issuing a statement that they were "shocked" by the revelations.  Does anybody actually believe that the BBC hierarchy were not aware of serious allegations stretching back 40 years, involving numerous occasions where there had been dressing room incidents etc? 

What does all this tell you about how we do things in this country?  Is there not a culture of trying to bury scandal, deny its' existance, making false claims about not having any prior knowledge etc etc?

[susan]

Morning Bridget

You could have a point as he always appeared full of himself I personally could never understand how he was so popular I thought him an odd sort of person with no talent whatsoever he was just a total loud creep.

[Bridget]

Morning Bridget

You could have a point as he always appeared full of himself I personally could never understand how he was so popular I thought him an odd sort of person with no talent whatsoever he was just a total loud creep.

That's exactly what I thought of him too.

How interesting, that this has only been fully exposed after his death and that the BBC both pulled the plug on an investigation that was being made as the same time as a tribute program!  And that they initially tried to deny having knowledge by issuing a statement that they were "shocked" by the revelations.  Does anybody actually believe that the BBC hierarchy were not aware of serious allegations stretching back 40 years, involving numerous occasions where there had been dressing room incidents etc? 

What does all this tell you about how we do things in this country?  Is there not a culture of trying to bury scandal, deny its' existance, making false claims about not having any prior knowledge etc etc?

I think it tells us that the 1970's / 1980's were a very different time, and in the 1980's no one envisaged the power that the media and the internet would later have. One of the main features of the Savile situation is that none of the victims knew about any of the others, they were isolated and that played a big part in keeping them quiet, and also made it so much easier for the BBC to turn a blind eye. Nowadays something like this would be all over Twitter within 5 minutes of it happening.

[simonbennett]

It does not matter how long it takes but the truth will always come out.
Truly evil people and their lies will eventually be exposed and they will lose everything including their credibility.

[maggie]

It does not matter how long it takes but the truth will always come out.
Truly evil people and their lies will eventually be exposed and they will lose everything including their credibility.

Hi simon, I believe that Jimmy Saville is a perfect example of how a successful psychopath behaves.....the public personna and the private evil bullying  thug.
Jeremy never exhibitted these traits. He was what he appeared to be human with different characteristics like most people. He didnt have a hidden, power mad, controlling life which is characteristic of psychopaths.J  JS's hid his real self behind the 'mask of sanity' imo

[Lugg]

That's exactly what I thought of him too.

I think it tells us that the 1970's / 1980's were a very different time, and in the 1980's no one envisaged the power that the media and the internet would later have. One of the main features of the Savile situation is that none of the victims knew about any of the others, they were isolated and that played a big part in keeping them quiet, and also made it so much easier for the BBC to turn a blind eye. Nowadays something like this would be all over Twitter within 5 minutes of it happening.

There were many factors that separate the 70's and 80's from 2012. The whole social structure was different and was guided by society's changing standards. In one way you cannot judge the moral standards of those days by moral standards of today. Those days were as different morally as the Victorians were to the 70's and 80's. And you will forgive me (because I know for sure that my words are going to be misunderstood when I say what I am going to say) but the present day can be characterised, partly because of the social networking craze by self righteousness.

The attitude that says, "I would never do that kind of thing myself". or "That person is so morally corrupt. Not like me. I thank you God that I am not like other men. Murderers and thieves" etc. There is in other words a shock within us as we judge the wicked deeds of other people which thinks that just because we don't commit the same wicked deeds as some others, that we are free of the stain of their evil ways. Whilst at the same time we don't think of the things we have done within our own minds. Such as internet abuse where we hold others up to ridicule and stalk them from afar. Whilst knowing absolutely nothing at all about that person.

Then we have the gaul to judge men like Jimmy Savile and other perverts. When in our own minds we ourselves are guilty of other offences equally as bad in a different way to them?

So in a way the only qualifications we have in condemning those in the 70's and 80's are the moral standards of today. Which, strangely enough are in some ways far more perverted than those in that era. My friend said to me in my younger days, "Tell you what. Live an entirely perfect life and then criticise everyone else". Of course that is an impossibility for me to do.

What I am saying basically is you cannot criticise those of the 70's and 80's until the understand those who lived in those days. The great "sexual" revolution was still in its infancy and people did what they wanted basically. I just cannot wait for 50 years to go by (I shan't be here of course) and then look back at the corruption of this generation. No doubt the people of the next generation and the generation after that will judge us with equal vehemence morally.

[Jane]

Morning Roch/vidvic

I think Saville's charity work enabled him to get away with his evil deeds I don't think the two were connected at the onset. I honestly don't think he was of the opinion that the charity work compensated for his evil ways as he would not see his ways as evil just a desire.  Hope I am making sense .

Susan, it makes perfect sense to me. I have a gay friend who was "introduced" to his lifestyle in 1960 when he was 14. His "mentor" was a much older man, a Harley Street doctor in his 30s. He took my friend to art galleries, to the opera, fine restuarants. He made friends with his mother, who was naturally overwhelmed that this fine man should take such an interest in her son and of course was very grateful for his financial support.

Logic says that what this man did amounts to child abuse, but my friend never saw it that way. He looked up to and admired him. My friend was never going to be hetrosexual and says to this day that nothing happened that he didn't want to happen, and he felt looked after and cared for. They were together until my friend grew old enough to cease to be of interest. Clearly this man's taste was for the VERY young.

When it comes to filth like JS abusing underage girls, however distasteful we find it, it must be remembered that in other cultures, girls who have probably had to submit to female castration when the were little more than babies, are married off as soon as they start menstruating, which could be as young as 10, they are then forced to have legal sex on a regular basis with their husbands, who may well be in their 60s or 70s. Clearly these mens' tastes are for the VERY young.

[Jane]

How interesting, that this has only been fully exposed after his death and that the BBC both pulled the plug on an investigation that was being made as the same time as a tribute program!  And that they initially tried to deny having knowledge by issuing a statement that they were "shocked" by the revelations.  Does anybody actually believe that the BBC hierarchy were not aware of serious allegations stretching back 40 years, involving numerous occasions where there had been dressing room incidents etc? 

What does all this tell you about how we do things in this country?  Is there not a culture of trying to bury scandal, deny its' existance, making false claims about not having any prior knowledge etc etc?

I think we have to look at this through the eyes of the men who "operated" in the 60/70s. The mini skirt was reaching ever dizzier heights. The Pill was available, What 14yr old EVER went out looking less than 17? Dressing in a certain way to visit certain venues gave the message that they were up for it. It was no good screaming that they were only 14 when earlier on they'd said they were 18 to get into the place. Not for one moment am I condoning sexual abuse. I'm looking at the messages that were being sent. Sadly, whilst it may have looked to the contrary, back in the 60s, a 14yr old virgin would probably have had little idea of what she seemed to be asking for until after she got it, by which time it would have been too late for her to change her mind.

[campion]

Bill Wyman was in a relaitionship with a thirteen year old girl Mandy Smith, The Rolling Stones didnt say please don't leave the Band, If someone else did that and wasn't so rich they wouldn't be called a Sugar Daddy they would be doing time for being a Perv. Lets get this right Jolly Jim was abuse Cub Scouts and Brownies.....

[nugnug]

as i far as i can recall it wasn't any more acceptable to molest kids in the 70s any more than it is now.

[gordo30]

as i far as i can recall it wasn't any more acceptable to molest kids in the 70s any more than it is now.

I couldn't agree more here nugnug and I am surprised at the apologetic stance resonating throughout these last few posts on this topic. It wasn't right then and Saville knew that, he flaunted it but he knew he was doing wrong. I think it was to show his power over everyone else in that he could do so without reproach and he used that as a guide to the power he had. The fundamentals of human nature don't change but its obvious from some of the replies that the outlook does. We now struggle to try and understand these people, we live in a time when I feel people find the strength to come out and tell what happened to them back in the 60/70's from many different sourse's and I don't feel it was more prevelent back then as it is even now simply because of things like mini skirts and such, the things young ladies wear now are far more revealing and they know just what there doing but they know  also just what is wrong and how to deal with it.

[lookout]

It all boils down to how loud money talks.! And boy does it shout.

[Lugg]

I couldn't agree more here nugnug and I am surprised at the apologetic stance resonating throughout these last few posts on this topic. It wasn't right then and Saville knew that, he flaunted it but he knew he was doing wrong. I think it was to show his power over everyone else in that he could do so without reproach and he used that as a guide to the power he had. The fundamentals of human nature don't change but its obvious from some of the replies that the outlook does. We now struggle to try and understand these people, we live in a time when I feel people find the strength to come out and tell what happened to them back in the 60/70's from many different sourse's and I don't feel it was more prevelent back then as it is even now simply because of things like mini skirts and such, the things young ladies wear now are far more revealing and they know just what there doing but they know  also just what is wrong and how to deal with it.

If you had read my post correctly you will see that it was in no way "apologetic" towards the 70's and 80's. That was not what I was doing. Do I have to spell everything out to those of you who cannot understand my sentance construction. I admid that I branch out in various directions. But always come back to my train of thought.

No child abuse and paedophilia was not acceptable in the 70's and 80's. But the toleration of it was. The main point I was making is that this present age in which we live is a sarned site more perverted that in that era. People seem so tolerant of internet abuse today for instance and some of the character assination that goes on today to my mind is almost unforgivable that those people who make it their career to abuse people on the internet can in no way condemn those of yesteryear until they have cleansed their own houses.

The very fact that this is all coming out now is because it was hidden up in those days indicates that it was tolerated then. Just as many things that are covered up today will no doubt be condemned in years to come. It is then that we may just see that we ain't much better than those in the 70's and 80's.

One good thing that has come out of this is the fact that it seems to have given women the courage that didn't have before to come forward and report their own abuse to the police. Because now there is a chance that they will be taken seriously. Whereas in the 70's and 80's they would probably have been ridiculed if they had brought such accusations against any of these influential people.
So please do not accuse me of being "apologetic" towards those in the 70's and 80's. I was very young myself in those days. Because I will never excuse wickedness of any kind.
But at the same time I feel that we should avoid this kind of self righteousness that whilst condemns others, conveniently excuses our own wrong doings and indeed are actually blind to our own faults.

[Patti]

Mark Williams Thomas ....You will get a knock at the door.  Mark looks very tired on this video... http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-10-26/savile-case-a-watershed-moment-in-child-protection/