Author Topic: Mindset of Jeremy Bamber, at time he was informed, that all his family was dead  (Read 37941 times)

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Offline Kaldin

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How can his initial reaction be a red herring?  It is what it is, or rather, what it was... his initial reaction.

Because even if he thought the police had shot them, he clearly thought that it was Sheila who initially had the gun.

Offline Roch

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.
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No, he did not - this was one of JB's complaints to COLP as part of their investigation...

No, I am claiming that his initial reaction could be interpreted as him not knowing anyone was dead inside the farmhouse, until being informed by police.

Why didn't he complain at the trial then? PC West's log was in court. So you claim that Jeremy didn't think Sheila had done it and yet he said nothing when the defence suggested she had?

Another red herring.

Not if his opinion had changed between the event and the trial

So are you claiming that everyone - the police and the relatives - thought Sheila had done it at first - everyone except Jeremy who thought the police did it?

No I am claiming that his initial reaction seems to be as someone who was not aware of any deaths inside the farmhouse, until being informed that there were deaths inside the farmhouse, by the police.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 09:57:PM by Rochford Shields »

Offline mike tesko

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.
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No, he did not - this was one of JB's complaints to COLP as part of their investigation...

Why didn't he complain at the trial then? PC West's log was in court. So you claim that Jeremy didn't think Sheila had done it and yet he said nothing when the defence suggested she had?

Another red herring.
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The jury were told that they had to choose between Sheila or Jeremy, and that there was no third party involvement in these killings, and this is what JB's legal team set out to do - they set out to try and show that it was not Jeremy, and the prosecution set out to show that it was not Sheila...

Under these circumstances, how was it possible for JB to influence and change the way the trial was set up to be decided upon by the jury?

« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 09:58:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.
---------------

No, he did not - this was one of JB's complaints to COLP as part of their investigation...

Why didn't he complain at the trial then? PC West's log was in court. So you claim that Jeremy didn't think Sheila had done it and yet he said nothing when the defence suggested she had?

Another red herring.
-------------------

The jury were told that they had to choose between Sheila or Jeremy, and that there was no third party involvement in these killings, and this is what JB's legal team set out to do - they set out to try and show that it was not Jeremy, and the prosecution set out to show that it was not Sheila...

Under these circumstances, how was it possible for JB to influence and change the way the trial was set up to be decided upon by the jury?

Of course he could. That's what the defence is for.

Offline Roch

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How can his initial reaction be a red herring?  It is what it is, or rather, what it was... his initial reaction.

Because even if he thought the police had shot them, he clearly thought that it was Sheila who initially had the gun.

yes.. but that's not the same thing as clearly thinking that Sheila had killed everyone inside the farmhouse. 

Offline mike tesko

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How can his initial reaction be a red herring?  It is what it is, or rather, what it was... his initial reaction.

Because even if he thought the police had shot them, he clearly thought that it was Sheila who initially had the gun.
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It would depend upon what Ralph told JB when he made the telephone call to him, and what JB reported to PC West:-

"She has got the gun"

"He has got the gun"

"Sheila has got the gun"
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.

simong

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.
---------------

No, he did not - this was one of JB's complaints to COLP as part of their investigation...

Why didn't he complain at the trial then? PC West's log was in court. So you claim that Jeremy didn't think Sheila had done it and yet he said nothing when the defence suggested she had?

Another red herring.
-------------------

The jury were told that they had to choose between Sheila or Jeremy, and that there was no third party involvement in these killings, and this is what JB's legal team set out to do - they set out to try and show that it was not Jeremy, and the prosecution set out to show that it was not Sheila...

Under these circumstances, how was it possible for JB to influence and change the way the trial was set up to be decided upon by the jury?

Surely the Jury were told this in the judge's summing up, not initially. There was nothing to stop the defence proceding with a third party carrying out the killings at the onset of the trial.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 10:12:PM by simong »

Offline mike tesko

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.
---------------

No, he did not - this was one of JB's complaints to COLP as part of their investigation...

Why didn't he complain at the trial then? PC West's log was in court. So you claim that Jeremy didn't think Sheila had done it and yet he said nothing when the defence suggested she had?

Another red herring.
-------------------

The jury were told that they had to choose between Sheila or Jeremy, and that there was no third party involvement in these killings, and this is what JB's legal team set out to do - they set out to try and show that it was not Jeremy, and the prosecution set out to show that it was not Sheila...

Under these circumstances, how was it possible for JB to influence and change the way the trial was set up to be decided upon by the jury?

Of course he could. That's what the defence is for.
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I am assuming that you have never been on trial for anything, or been accused of doing something that you did not do, and been to court and been represented by a solicitor, or a barrister, or a QC, or both or all - because they know best, they know what to do and how to go about trying to get you found not guilty, or acquitted...

Its not as simple as you are trying to make out, because you can't say everything and anything that you want to, or which requires or needs to be said...

As a defendant you find yourself being guided by these people - all of whom know best...

The way I see it, at the time of JB's trial, if the case was set up for the jury to decide guilt between Sheila and JB, then his legal team would not necessarily have to show or prove that someone else carried out the deed, other than JB or Sheila, JB's legal team did not have to prove anything , but they chose to try and prove to the jury that it could not have been, and was not him...

« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 10:19:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.
---------------

No, he did not - this was one of JB's complaints to COLP as part of their investigation...

Why didn't he complain at the trial then? PC West's log was in court. So you claim that Jeremy didn't think Sheila had done it and yet he said nothing when the defence suggested she had?

Another red herring.
-------------------

The jury were told that they had to choose between Sheila or Jeremy, and that there was no third party involvement in these killings, and this is what JB's legal team set out to do - they set out to try and show that it was not Jeremy, and the prosecution set out to show that it was not Sheila...

Under these circumstances, how was it possible for JB to influence and change the way the trial was set up to be decided upon by the jury?

Surely the Jury were told this in the judge's summing up, not initially. There was nothing to stop the defence prededing with a third party carrying out the killings at the onset of the trial.

Exactly.

Offline Roch

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.

Kaldin I cant get your angle on this.  His initial reaction was to suggest the TFU had killed his family. Wouldn't he go along with suggesting Sheil had killed them, in a scenario where he's actually trying to frame Sheila? Why lash out at the TFU?

Offline Kaldin

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.

Kaldin I cant get your angle on this.  His initial reaction was to suggest the TFU had killed his family. Wouldn't he go along with suggesting Sheil had killed them, in a scenario where he's actually trying to frame Sheila? Why lash out at the TFU?

Yes, I agree but now Mike has introduced another red herring - ie, that Jeremy never claimed it was Sheila who had the gun.

Offline Roch

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.

Kaldin I cant get your angle on this.  His initial reaction was to suggest the TFU had killed his family. Wouldn't he go along with suggesting Sheil had killed them, in a scenario where he's actually trying to frame Sheila? Why lash out at the TFU?

Yes, I agree but now Mike has introduced another red herring - ie, that Jeremy never claimed it was Sheila who had the gun.

Ok, I'm glad you can see that.  I'll let Mike explain your particular point.

clifford

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I thought he said my sister has gone mad with a gun.

Offline Kaldin

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.

Kaldin I cant get your angle on this.  His initial reaction was to suggest the TFU had killed his family. Wouldn't he go along with suggesting Sheil had killed them, in a scenario where he's actually trying to frame Sheila? Why lash out at the TFU?

Yes, I agree but now Mike has introduced another red herring - ie, that Jeremy never claimed it was Sheila who had the gun.

Ok, I'm glad you can see that.  I'll let Mike explain your particular point.

Yes, sorry - I do get your point, and I've thought the same thing myself. It would be better if these red herrings were not introduced.