Author Topic: Mindset of Jeremy Bamber, at time he was informed, that all his family was dead  (Read 37932 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Mindset of Jeremy Bamber, at time he was informed, that all his family was dead

When news was broken to Jeremy, that everyone inside whf had been found dead, he accused the police of shooting them...

Although Jeremy made this complaint to a police officer, it was never officially, investigated...

What is interesting about this complaint, is that a huge question mark hangs over the death of Sheila Caffell in the main bedroom, (a suicide), upstairs at whf, (after 8:30am), after she had earlier been reported dead, (a suicide), downstairs, in the region of the kitchen (before 7:45am)...

Three senior police officers, DCI "George" Harris, DCI "Terry" Gibbons, and PI "Ivor" Montgomery, were all trapped for 15 minutes, inside the kitchen at whf, as a result of Sheila's body, being displaced from the region of the kitchen downstairs, to the bedroom upstairs...

The topic of conversation, between DCI Harris (at the scene using the kitchen phone) and ACC Peter Simpson (head of investigations at police headquarters) which took place between 8:15am and 8:30am, that morning, revolved around the disappearance of Sheila's body from the region of the kitchen, and its reappearance upstairs in the bedroom, aforementioned...

Jeremy's mindset

At no stage did Jeremy ever say that anyone had been shot, or that he heard a shot when Ralph called him from whf, or that anyone had by that stage been wounded or killed, he never said any such things, and no-one claims he said such things, when he spoke to the police, or to his girlfriend, Julie Mugford, that morning...

He had spoken to his father from the scene at 3:25am, and he knew that by that stage, Ralph Bamber was still very much alive, inside whf...

Later, when Jeremy tried to re-establish contact with his father, and he kept getting the engaged tone, Jeremy believed that this was because Ralph, was talking to someone else, and therefore, still alive...

Upon arrival at the scene (3:52am) Jeremy was present along with two police officers inside the grounds of whf, when they all observed a silhouetted figure walking around in the  bedroom, and in particular, they had seen a person walk across the open window from right to left, which caused Jeremy and the police to race from the grounds of whf, go back to the patrol car (CA07) which was parked up along Pages Lane, from where a request was made for the firearms team to be brought to the scene, because the situation might turn into a siege...

Jeremy was present at the scene, when armed police officers attempted to engage the occupants of whf in conversation...

Jeremy was aware, whilst at the scene, that up to about 7:30am, something, or somebody inside the farmhouse, was keeping the police, from going up and knocking on the door, or as the case may be, from going into the farmhouse, any sooner than they did (7:30am)...

Jeremy had witnessed two ambulances and their crews arrive at the scene, at around 7 O'clock, one which was sent directly to the farmhouse, and the other held up in Pages Lane...

All these circumstances led Jeremy to believe, and assume, that members of his family, were all still alive inside whf, until the armed police officers forced their way into whf, at about 7:30am...

One hour later, (by 8:30am), all his family was pronounced or reported to be dead...

It was these factors, which led Jeremy to accuse the police of shooting dead his family when they went into the farmhouse carrying guns, when news was first broken to him that he had no family left...

Jeremy had every reason to believe that everyone inside whf was still alive, by the time armed police set off to enter whf...

Is it any wonder that Jeremy accused the armed police of shooting dead everyone?

But, why wasn't this complaint, ever investigated?

Four Murders and a suicide

Police response, to Jeremy's complaint, was to treat the five deaths, as "four murders and a suicide", (SC/688/85),with little or no room for any consideration that armed police had played any direct or indirect role in any of the deaths, in particular, the death in the bedroom, of Sheila Caffell...

By the time case changed, into five murders

By the time the nature of the case changed, (SC/786/85), and all five deaths were being treated as suspicious, (including the death of Sheila Caffell), Essex police still refused to investigate the very serious complaint which Jeremy had made, on the morning of the incident, about armed police officers, having shot members of his family and killed them...

Rather than Essex police conduct an investigation into themselves, as to whether any armed officer played some role in any of the five deaths inside whf, after they entered, instead, they chose to investigate the possibility that Jeremy hired a hit-man, Mathew MacDonald, and that he had paid him two thousand pounds to kill all the members of his family...

When that failed, they turned their attention to Jeremy...

Complaint, still not investigated

It will soon be twenty six years, since, Jeremy made the complaint at the scene, that armed police who went into whf, shot and killed members of his family...

There has never been an investigation into these complaints, and if Essex police, and the CPS, have anything at all to do with it, there will never be such an investigation, since, the true circustances surrounding how Sheila Caffell died in the bedroom at whf, after 8:15am, will be withheld under Pii rules, until long after Jeremy's death...

The state, and all its agencies, have conspired to keep an innocent man (Jeremy Bamber) in custody for the rest of his life, convicted of murders he did not commit, and could not have committed, whilst they retain possession and control of evidence (obtained under SC/688/85), which would establish his innocence...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 09:57:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Roch

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'it was them that killed them'... 'those men with the guns'  was Jeremy's initial recation to being informed his family had been killed. 

Try to imagine this situation being played out in real time...

Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to make some kind of remark about Sheila??

This is a man who has been found guilty of a planned execution, in which he has tried to frame his sister by stage managing the scene to make it look like she carried out the killings and then committed suicide.  Apparently, he's already (clumsily) laid the groundwork for this scenario by telling the police Sheila is a "nutter" and has got hold of his dad's gun.....   

So....

Why is his initial reaction at the scene to blame the TFU? 



Offline mike tesko

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'it was them that killed them'... 'those men with the guns'  was Jeremy's initial recation to being informed his family had been killed. 

Try to imagine this situation being played out in real time...

Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to make some kind of remark about Sheila??

This is a man who has been found guilty of a planned execution, in which he has tried to frame his sister by stage managing the scene to make it look like she carried out the killings and then committed suicide.  Apparently, he's already (clumsily) laid the groundwork for this scenario by telling the police Sheila is a "nutter" and has got hold of his dad's gun.....   

So....

Why is his initial reaction at the scene to blame the TFU?
----------------------

Jeremy told me that he said what he said because when the police and he went to have a look around the grounds of whf upon arriving there before 4am, they had seen someone at the bedroom window and as far as the police were concerned, and as far as he was concerned nobody had been shot by that stage, or after their arrival there...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Roch

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'it was them that killed them'... 'those men with the guns'  was Jeremy's initial recation to being informed his family had been killed. 

Try to imagine this situation being played out in real time...

Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to make some kind of remark about Sheila??

This is a man who has been found guilty of a planned execution, in which he has tried to frame his sister by stage managing the scene to make it look like she carried out the killings and then committed suicide.  Apparently, he's already (clumsily) laid the groundwork for this scenario by telling the police Sheila is a "nutter" and has got hold of his dad's gun.....   

So....

Why is his initial reaction at the scene to blame the TFU?
----------------------

Jeremy told me that he said what he said because when the police and he went to have a look around the grounds of whf upon arriving there before 4am, they had seen someone at the bedroom window and as far as the police were concerned, and as far as he was concerned nobody had been shot by that stage, or after their arrival there...

My interpretation is that it is the kind of remark someone would make, if they did not already know that anyone had been killed.  it is not the kind of remark that somebody would make if they were in the process of carrying out an elaborate and devious evil plan to frame murders on their sister. 

Offline mike tesko

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'it was them that killed them'... 'those men with the guns'  was Jeremy's initial recation to being informed his family had been killed. 

Try to imagine this situation being played out in real time...

Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to make some kind of remark about Sheila??

This is a man who has been found guilty of a planned execution, in which he has tried to frame his sister by stage managing the scene to make it look like she carried out the killings and then committed suicide.  Apparently, he's already (clumsily) laid the groundwork for this scenario by telling the police Sheila is a "nutter" and has got hold of his dad's gun.....   

So....

Why is his initial reaction at the scene to blame the TFU?
----------------------

Jeremy told me that he said what he said because when the police and he went to have a look around the grounds of whf upon arriving there before 4am, they had seen someone at the bedroom window and as far as the police were concerned, and as far as he was concerned nobody had been shot by that stage, or after their arrival there...

My interpretation is that it is the kind of remark someone would make, if they did not already know that anyone had been killed.  it is not the kind of remark that somebody would make if they were in the process of carrying out an elaborate and devious evil plan to frame murders on their sister.
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I follow the point you are making - one of the problems in this case, is that it was the police and the prosecution who came up with the idea / suggestion, that JB was blaming his sister for killing everyone, from the outset, but JB never claimed that at all...

It all started when PC West altered the meaning of JB's call top him when JB re[ported the telephone call that he received from his dad, saying "She has got the gun" or "He has got the gun" - PC West changed that into "Sheila has got the gun"...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.

Offline Roch

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.

Not according to the above police officer.

Offline shonapugs

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Jeremy seemed very keen to describe his sister as a "nutter", and at the same time inform the police of a number of guns situated around the house. He was hardly defending her.

Offline Kaldin

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Jeremy seemed very keen to describe his sister as a "nutter", and at the same time inform the police of a number of guns situated around the house. He was hardly defending her.

Exactly.

I think this is another red herring.

Offline Roch

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Jeremy seemed very keen to describe his sister as a "nutter", and at the same time inform the police of a number of guns situated around the house. He was hardly defending her.

I think he was asked to draw up a plan of the house and list the guns in the property by police.  His initial reaction to the deaths was to blame the TFU, as document shows above.

Offline mike tesko

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.
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No, he did not - this was one of JB's complaints to COLP as part of their investigation...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.
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No, he did not - this was one of JB's complaints to COLP as part of their investigation...

Why didn't he complain at the trial then? PC West's log was in court. So you claim that Jeremy didn't think Sheila had done it and yet he said nothing when the defence suggested she had?

Another red herring.

Offline Roch

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.
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No, he did not - this was one of JB's complaints to COLP as part of their investigation...

Why didn't he complain at the trial then? PC West's log was in court. So you claim that Jeremy didn't think Sheila had done it and yet he said nothing when the defence suggested she had?

Another red herring.

Not if his opinion had changed between the event and the trial

Offline Roch

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How can his initial reaction be a red herring?  It is what it is, or rather, what it was... his initial reaction.

Offline Kaldin

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I think that's rubbish. I think Jeremy said at the start that Sheila had done it.
---------------

No, he did not - this was one of JB's complaints to COLP as part of their investigation...

Why didn't he complain at the trial then? PC West's log was in court. So you claim that Jeremy didn't think Sheila had done it and yet he said nothing when the defence suggested she had?

Another red herring.

Not if his opinion had changed between the event and the trial

So are you claiming that everyone - the police and the relatives - thought Sheila had done it at first - everyone except Jeremy who thought the police did it?