Author Topic: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm  (Read 1385 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #135 on: Yesterday at 09:19 AM »
Most of the arguments presented disintegrate under the gentlest of scrutiny - they have been around for years. Guilters would only be gutted if they knew next-to-nothing about the case.

Be my guest to disintegrate them under your scrutiny.

Offline Rob_

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #136 on: Yesterday at 09:42 AM »
Most of the arguments presented disintegrate under the gentlest of scrutiny - they have been around for years. Guilters would only be gutted if they knew next-to-nothing about the case.

I find your attitude disappointing, the only plank of evidence has now been pulled away, but far worse it was fabricated. Probably involving one copper and people set to gain by a conviction.

Offline Adam

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #137 on: Yesterday at 09:48 AM »
Main points in the doc -

999 call.

Bible moved.

Aledged suicide note.

Aledged fostering conversation.

Sheila's condition.

Police collecting more than one silencer.

Sheila's neck marks. 


------------------


There was no mention of -

The bike & route.

Nevill's injuries.

No GSR on Sheila.

No evidence Sheila fought Nevill.

No evidence Sheila re loaded.

Jeremy's AM.

The kitchen window.

The items around the kitchen window being moved.

Where was Jeremy when the silencer was found.

Jeremy's 3 calls to Julie.

Sheila's legs being pulled after the second shot.

Sheila being shot twice.

Jeremy's attitude during his police interviews.

Why would Nevill phone Jeremy?

How would Nevill have the time to phone Jeremy.

Sheila unable to function..

Things in Julie's WS only Jeremy could tell her.

Nevill's huge size and strength advantages.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:53 AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jonathan

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #138 on: Yesterday at 10:15 AM »
I find your attitude disappointing, the only plank of evidence has now been pulled away, but far worse it was fabricated. Probably involving one copper and people set to gain by a conviction.

I fear you're going to be just as disappointed by the attitude of the CCRC.

Offline Rob_

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #139 on: Yesterday at 10:33 AM »
I fear you're going to be just as disappointed by the attitude of the CCRC.

No not really, the CCRC just look to reject, do no real investigation and are not fit for purpose.

Offline Adam

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #140 on: Yesterday at 10:39 AM »
No not really, the CCRC just look to reject, do no real investigation and are not fit for purpose.

What ground/s of the 2021 application do you think the CCRC should have referred?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Zoso

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #141 on: Yesterday at 04:31 PM »
After having read the opinions of Zoso, I have now read those of Cambridge and Steve. Thanks. In terms of the war for public opinion, for once, the innocent side managed to turn up unfettered. If I was a dyed in-the- wool guilter, I would be gutted by this broadcast. It is a hammer blow against the guilty argument and their longstanding media-grip on the narrative. It was surprisingly well made on a number of levels. That being said, I believe the failure to address Burrell and Rowe or at least put them in context, will undermine the 999 claim. Hilarious that Babs seems to has remembered her original statement and has now flipped back to the Light.

I've been both!
I'm not gutted, I thought it was a complete waste of time and it wasn't even a tickle, never mind a hammer.
There was nothing to undermine, it quite simply didn't happen and the log proves it, the log that the reporter herself referred to.
Babs - yeah  ;D

Online Armchair Detective

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #142 on: Yesterday at 05:19 PM »
Not sure if anyone has pointed this out already, but in transferring the open line to the control room, might the phone have rang and needed picking up just like any regular 999 call?

Is this the source of Millbank's confusion and the CT's latest cause for over excitement?

It's quite fascinating to see conspiracy fiction being born but rather worrying how easily some uncritically embrace it.
"When ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything, just let them talk" - Barack Obama

Offline Roch

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #143 on: Yesterday at 05:34 PM »
Not sure if anyone has pointed this out already, but in transferring the open line to the control room, might the phone have rang and needed picking up just like any regular 999 call?

Is this the source of Millbank's confusion and the CT's latest cause for over excitement?

It's quite fascinating to see conspiracy fiction being born but rather worrying how easily some uncritically embrace it.

Forget 999. Ignore it. Watch the programme anyway. It's well made. I was surprised.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #144 on: Yesterday at 06:20 PM »
Hi everybody!

Just saw the documentary advertised and came by to see if I needed to watch it.

Looks like I don't.

So, if I've parsed everything in this thread, the whole appeal now appears to rest on previously failed arguments and the non existent 999 call which, as others have said, is disproved by the logs.

Does anybody seriously believe that at the exact moment the open line was transferred from the GPO to the police, Sheila made a silent phone call? For those not around in the 80's, it was impossible to make a call if the line was open.

Anyway, I'm going back to ignoring this case until something happens that's more interesting than a cheap channel 5 documentary with a click bait title and the dreadful attention seeker MWT.

Kind regards to the diehards here and thank you for saving me an hour and a half!
They seem to have the bit between their teeth with the latest Milbank revelation. No respect for the wishes of Colin Caffell at all.

Offline Rob_

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #145 on: Yesterday at 06:37 PM »
Hi everybody!

Just saw the documentary advertised and came by to see if I needed to watch it.

Looks like I don't.

So, if I've parsed everything in this thread, the whole appeal now appears to rest on previously failed arguments and the non existent 999 call which, as others have said, is disproved by the logs.

Does anybody seriously believe that at the exact moment the open line was transferred from the GPO to the police, Sheila made a silent phone call? For those not around in the 80's, it was impossible to make a call if the line was open.

Anyway, I'm going back to ignoring this case until something happens that's more interesting than a cheap channel 5 documentary with a click bait title and the dreadful attention seeker MWT.

Kind regards to the diehards here and thank you for saving me an hour and a half!

Well of course the phone would have to be returned to the cradle before dialing out. Then to anyone checking the line it would be "engaged" and not "off the hook"

Offline Zoso

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #146 on: Yesterday at 07:12 PM »
Well of course the phone would have to be returned to the cradle before dialing out. Then to anyone checking the line it would be "engaged" and not "off the hook"

Either way, the operator would simply break into the line and determine if it was 'off the hook' or 'engaged'. Have done that, the operator in this case realised that as there was no conversation in progress, and therefore determined the phone was 'off the hook'

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #147 on: Yesterday at 07:37 PM »
Either way, the operator would simply break into the line and determine if it was 'off the hook' or 'engaged'. Have done that, the operator in this case realised that as there was no conversation in progress, and therefore determined the phone was 'off the hook'

Some parts of previous exchanges/posts

You are posting crap. The Chelmsford Telephone exchange was one of the most modern in the UK. Operators had lights and sounds to assist. I have set all this out many times. Either you did not read my posts or you have memory issues.

You are still wrong. The operator could cut in but she did not need to do this. The switchboard indicated the line status.

Yes, a telephone operator can typically tell the difference between a phone that is off the hook and one that is engaged. When the operator plugged in the signal received gave the answer.

When a phone is off the hook, it usually results in a continuous tone or a “howler” tone after a certain period, indicating that the receiver hasn’t been replaced properly. On the other hand, an engaged line will produce a busy signal, indicating that the line is currently in use.

That is how JR knew it was off the hook. The tone heard gave the answer. In this case she would have heard the howler and nothing else since the howler had been automatic since 1959.


The Chelmsford telephone exchange system was one of the first digital systems in the country. Telephonists could tell the status of a line by both lights and sounds. If off the hook was registered there would be a yellow light and the sound called the howler would be heard by any telephonist who accessed the line.
The engaged tone was a repeating double bleep. Two 400 Hz bleeps. The engaged light was red and the idle light was green. Satisfied?

Offline Cambridgecutie

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #148 on: Yesterday at 09:04 PM »
Some parts of previous exchanges/posts

You are posting crap. The Chelmsford Telephone exchange was one of the most modern in the UK. Operators had lights and sounds to assist. I have set all this out many times. Either you did not read my posts or you have memory issues.

You are still wrong. The operator could cut in but she did not need to do this. The switchboard indicated the line status.

Yes, a telephone operator can typically tell the difference between a phone that is off the hook and one that is engaged. When the operator plugged in the signal received gave the answer.

When a phone is off the hook, it usually results in a continuous tone or a “howler” tone after a certain period, indicating that the receiver hasn’t been replaced properly. On the other hand, an engaged line will produce a busy signal, indicating that the line is currently in use.

That is how JR knew it was off the hook. The tone heard gave the answer. In this case she would have heard the howlerand nothing else since the howler had been automatic since 1959.


The Chelmsford telephone exchange system was one of the first digital systems in the country. Telephonists could tell the status of a line by both lights and sounds. If off the hook was registered there would be a yellow light and the sound called the howlerwould be heard by any telephonist who accessed the line.
The engaged tone was a repeating double bleep. Two 400 Hz bleeps. The engaged light was red and the idle light was green. Satisfied?

The only "howler" is your misguided belief that this is going anywhere with the CCRC/CoA.
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

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Online Armchair Detective

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Re: Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm
« Reply #149 on: Yesterday at 10:04 PM »
Forget 999. Ignore it. Watch the programme anyway. It's well made. I was surprised.

I really can't be bothered Roch. Sorry. 90 minutes is about 85 minutes too long by the sounds of it.
"When ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything, just let them talk" - Barack Obama