Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm

[Roch]

I have read Zozo's review of the C5 docu.  Can any other members please provide similar?

[David1819]

I would imagine the farewell/suicide notes will soon be in the public domain for all to see, Adam.
No reason to restrict who sees them now after showing them on TV surely, well partly showing them anyway.

I think these farewell notes are already on the forum, but they are very hard to read.

[David1819]

I have read Zozo's review of the C5 docu.  Can any other members please provide similar?

Welcome back Roch.

[Bubo bubo]

Then the defence would have to present the log entry below, which is the one Heidi 'discovered'  (which has been on THIS forum for centuries), which makes it absolutely clear that the event was the GPO operator patching an open line through to the police so they could monitor he line. It's even recorded TWICE for clarity!

You can put your spin on this. The fact is that West recorded that the line was engaged at 5.47. From his previous contact with the GPO he must have known that only the operator could confirm whether the line was engaged or simply off the hook as previously notified. So to say the line was engaged he must have meant that the line status had changed when contacting the GPO or as instructed (5.45) they were notifying the change to him. There would be no point in creating a link with the 999 line if the position had not changed.

The 999 line was at HQIR.

[Bubo bubo]

You can put your spin on this. The fact is that West recorded that the line was engaged at 5.47. From his previous contact with the GPO he must have known that only the operator could confirm whether the line was engaged or simply off the hook as previously notified. So to say the line was engaged he must have meant that the line status had changed when contacting the GPO or as instructed (5.45) they were notifying the change to him. There would be no point in creating a link with the 999 line if the position had not changed.

The 999 line was at HQIR.

And remember it was shortly after this episode ambulances were summoned.

[Roch]

Welcome back Roch.

Cheers. My phone screen is kaput. It's more complicated than that though. I may need some technical advice.

[Cambridgecutie]

I have read Zozo's review of the C5 docu.  Can any other members please provide similar?

Certainly Sir!

I would largely echo Zoso's review. 

- The '999 call' was simply the GPO connecting the open line at WHF to EP HQ at Chelmsford.

- The 'suicide notes' appear undated.  In any event the CoA will simply say:

 - Yes there was evidence SC suffered suicide ideation but her mood was much improved shortly before 7th Aug eg Len Foakes seeing her skip down the lane with the twins.

- Helen Grimster was I believe a defence witness at trial and gave evidence that SC discussed suicide.  The CoA will argue the jury heard that SC suffered suicide ideation along with expert evidence from Dr's Bradley and Ferguson about her morbid thoughts and mental illness.   

- Philip Boyce's pig skin test has been undertaken previously has it not?  To no avail.  Also it does not explain how blood said to match SC's came to be in the silencer and/or the absense of blood on the barrel/pull through, paint and scratches.

- Claims of one or more silencers.  This has being doing the rounds for years.  Its not going to wash with CoA.  It will be interested in the silencer exhibited at trial SBJ/1 complete with blood flake matching SC's blood groups, paint, scratches and the lost hair.

The interesting points for me, with potential for further investigation were:

- Claims about AE making a written note about blood on the silencer before it was found. 

- The soc around SC interfered with eg bible and rifle moved.

Don't shoot the messenger.  I am simply giving my interpretation of how the CoA will view this based on the 2002 hearing.

[Cambridgecutie]

You can put your spin on this. The fact is that West recorded that the line was engaged at 5.47. From his previous contact with the GPO he must have known that only the operator could confirm whether the line was engaged or simply off the hook as previously notified. So to say the line was engaged he must have meant that the line status had changed when contacting the GPO or as instructed (5.45) they were notifying the change to him. There would be no point in creating a link with the 999 line if the position had not changed.

The 999 line was at HQIR.

If it doesn't pass muster on a pro JB forum do you think its going to pass muster with 3 CoA judges?  Get real.

[Adam]

Certainly Sir!

I would largely echo Zoso's review. 

- The '999 call' was simply the GPO connecting the open line at WHF to EP HQ at Chelmsford.

- The 'suicide notes' appear undated.  In any event the CoA will simply say:

 - Yes there was evidence SC suffered suicide ideation but her mood was much improved shortly before 7th Aug eg Len Foakes seeing her skip down the lane with the twins.

- Helen Grimster was I believe a defence witness at trial and gave evidence that SC discussed suicide.  The CoA will argue the jury heard that SC suffered suicide ideation along with expert evidence from Dr's Bradley and Ferguson about her morbid thoughts and mental illness.   

- Philip Boyce's pig skin test has been undertaken previously has it not?  To no avail.  Also it does not explain how blood said to match SC's came to be in the silencer and/or the absense of blood on the barrel/pull through, paint and scratches.

- Claims of one or more silencers.  This has being doing the rounds for years.  Its not going to wash with CoA.  It will be interested in the silencer exhibited at trial SBJ/1 complete with blood flake matching SC's blood groups, paint, scratches and the lost hair.

The interesting points for me, with potential for further investigation were:

- Claims about AE making a written note about blood on the silencer before it was found. 

- The soc around SC interfered with eg bible and rifle moved.

Don't shoot the messenger.  I am simply giving my interpretation of how the CoA will view this based on the 2002 hearing.

AE probably did make a note about a silencer beforehand. They suspected Jeremy so were going to look for evidence. He would have used a silencer in a silent massacre atrempt. 

Doubt that the rifle or bible were moved pre photos. If they were doubt it would have influenced the jury much.

[Bubo bubo]

If it doesn't pass muster on a pro JB forum do you think its going to pass muster with 3 CoA judges?  Get real.

Even if they were connecting it to to an earlier abandoned call as you would have it, this does not negate what Milbank said he heard inside the house.

Why even include this from a prize winning journalist in the documentary if we take your view. It was supported by at least 4 KC's and other highly knowledgeable legal and technical experts who would not partake in the programme if they disagreed with this critical aspect. They would be tarnishing their reputations. They were not paid to take part. You are a sour puss who only believes in her own thinking. It is you who should be getting real

[Cambridgecutie]

AE probably did make a note about a silencer beforehand. They suspected Jeremy so were going to look for evidence. He would have used a silencer in a silent massacre atrempt. 

Doubt that the rifle or bible were moved pre photos. If they were doubt it would have influenced the jury much.

I simply said they were interesting points (to me) not that they were capable of anything further. 

[Adam]

I simply said they were interesting points (to me) not that they were capable of anything further.

What do you think would get through the CCRC?

[Cambridgecutie]

Even if they were connecting it to to an earlier abandoned call as you would have it, this does not negate what Milbank said he heard inside the house.

We know Milbank must have heard sounds as the raid team entered when he was listening in.  We also know Crispy was roaming around and barking as GPO op, Jean Rowe, confirmed she heard a dog barking.

Why even include this from a prize winning journalist in the documentary if we take your view. It was supported by at least 4 KC's and other highly knowledgeable legal and technical experts who would not partake in the programme if they disagreed with this critical aspect. They would be tarnishing their reputations. They were not paid to take part. You are a sour puss who only believes in her own thinking. It is you who should be getting real

The prize winning journalist has been around the case for months.  Many contributors here have been around the case for decades.  The prize winning journalist cannot possibly have the depth of knowledge that many regular contributors have here.  I am afraid there is no substitute for the hard yards!

How are KC's going to tarnish their reputations with vague comments like 'The case features all the hallmarks of a MoJ'? 

The case has been littered with QC's/KC's: Rivlin, Lawson, Sperryman, Turner and Duck to name but a few.  I would remind you that JB is still very much a Cat A and not going anywhere soon.  No sour puss or Cambridgecuntie required. 

[snow66!]

What do you think would get through the CCRC?

What 'should' get through the CCRC is the Aga evidence, Adam!
And well do you know that, lad!

[snow66!]

I think these farewell notes are already on the forum, but they are very hard to read.

Yes, so Zoso said, Dave! Although I have never come across them here. Maybe they were deleted before I joined?