US-Israel Attacks Iran

[Cambridgecutie]

I am not getting Trump's plan to block the Strait?  Is this to prevent oil getting to the likes of China and India?  Thus cutting off Iran's oil revenue from those countires it is allowing to pass through the Strait and possibly those countries putting pressure on Iran to negotiate a settlement with US? 

[Steve_uk]

I am not getting Trump's plan to block the Strait?  Is this to prevent oil getting to the likes of China and India?  Thus cutting off Iran's oil revenue from those countires it is allowing to pass through the Strait and possibly those countries putting pressure on Iran to negotiate a settlement with US?

It's likely to be a war of attrition, so long term. I doubt Trump is particularly concerned as he doesn't face re-election.

[Adam]

Be more worried about Israel having a nuclear weapon.

They have bombed Iran, got America to help & did not try to stop Trump from blowing up a civilisation. They then continued bombing Lebanon throughout the ceasefire.

Israel are also America's friend, so America less likely to react if Israel do use a nuclear weapon.

[Adam]

America could say to Iran - 'build a nuclear weapon'.

If you use it on another country unprovoked, America will obliterate you.

Unfair if countries around Iran are building nuclear weapons which they can drop on Iran, but Iran can't retaliate.

[Steve_uk]

One has to understand the mindset of Israelis, where the Holocaust is a daily factor in life. https://www.jns.org/news/israel-news/operation-roaring-lion-thwarted-irans-plans-for-nuclear-holocaust-netanyahu-says-on-yom-hashoah?utm_campaign=Daily%20Syndicate%20Emails&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--HzqLenwDQmY-iX47D950_nNUAFy7hegnml_XOBwV1QY320q4sYO2n-oMWAFWy9F3CcxXiAABMoF8PuhIOn0kQWeeo6TlGpzUlIq1y5a1nv78KT5U&_hsmi=133372246&utm_content=133372246&utm_source=hs_email

[snow66!]

Be more worried about Israel having a nuclear weapon.

They have bombed Iran, got America to help & did not try to stop Trump from blowing up a civilisation. They then continued bombing Lebanon throughout the ceasefire.

Israel are also America's friend, so America less likely to react if Israel do use a nuclear weapon.

It is worth remembering that prior to 1979 Israel and Iran were more or less allies who shared intelligence and even trade I believe, Adam!
Both saw Russia as their enemy I believe.
That all changed after 1979 when Ayatollah Homanie took over Iran and for some reason [probably religion?] Homanie declared Israel as 'little satan' and the USA as 'big satan' or words to that effect.
So again, isn't it a case of Israel simply defending itself from a radical nutcase theocratic regime, Adam?
Do you really think that a country who describes other countries as 'satan' and who openly wants them wiped off the face of the Earth is safe to develop nuclear weapons?
OK, it all depends who you believe, but personally I would rather back Israel and the US over Iran and all its terrorist groups it funds!

[Adam]

It is worth remembering that prior to 1979 Israel and Iran were more or less allies who shared intelligence and even trade I believe, Adam!
Both saw Russia as their enemy I believe.
That all changed after 1979 when Ayatollah Homanie took over Iran and for some reason [probably religion?] Homanie declared Israel as 'little satan' and the USA as 'big satan' or words to that effect.
So again, isn't it a case of Israel simply defending itself from a radical nutcase theocratic regime, Adam?
Do you really think that a country who describes other countries as 'satan' and who openly wants them wiped off the face of the Earth is safe to develop nuclear weapons?
OK, it all depends who you believe, but personally I would rather back Israel and the US over Iran and all its terrorist groups it funds!

America can't constantly try to stop Iran building a nuclear weapon. They said they obliterated there nuclear plant a few months ago. Then claimed they were about to use a nuclear weapon. 

Iran is bigger than several European countries put together & has over 90 million people. They could be building them anywhere. 

Nuclear weapons have been around for decades. America have just tried to stop them. Iran shut down a vital shipping lane & rejected the USA's request to abandon there nuclear programme.

[snow66!]

America can't constantly try to stop Iran building a nuclear weapon. They said they obliterated there nuclear plant a few months ago. Then claimed they were about to use a nuclear weapon. 

Iran is bigger than several European countries put together & has over 90 million people. They could be building them anywhere. 

Nuclear weapons have been around for decades. America have just tried to stop them. Iran shut down a vital shipping lane & rejected the USA's request to abandon there nuclear programme.

What do you think USA/Israel should do at this point, Adam?
Obviously the best outcome would be regime change in Iran which would hopefully end the funding of many terrorist groups in the middle east which constantly attack Israel.

[Adam]

What do you think USA/Israel should do at this point, Adam?
Obviously the best outcome would be regime change in Iran which would hopefully end the funding of many terrorist groups in the middle east which constantly attack Israel.

All he can do is try to get the Strait of Hormuz open. By force.

He can then claim victory as he destroyed Iran's military. Temporarily   

Iran won't agree to regime change or to abandon there nuclear programme.

Or Trump could go back to destroying a civilisation. Which won't open the Strait of Hormuz.

[Adam]

Suspect Trump & Hegseth tried to get boots on the ground. But generals refused.

If he does attack Iran's infrastructure, believe it will be out of the blue. No countdown this time.

[snow66!]

All he can do is try to get the Strait of Hormuz open. By force.

He can then claim victory as he destroyed Iran's military. Temporarily   

Iran won't agree to regime change or to abandon there nuclear programme.

Or Trump could go back to destroying a civilisation. Which won't open the Strait of Hormuz.

OK, thanks, Adam! we shall see what the following days and weeks bring!

[Roch]

What do you think USA/Israel should do at this point, Adam?
Obviously the best outcome would be regime change in Iran which would hopefully end the funding of many terrorist groups in the middle east which constantly attack Israel.

Who gets to decide who is a 'terrorist' and who isn't?  Who gets to decide when the harshest sanctions are put in place and for which country? If you are a Palestinian living in fear in the West Bank, how do you apply meaningful sanctions to the people who are terrorising you?

[Jane]

My best friend's dad was part of the crew on BA's maiden Concorde flight.  So I know someone on the first flight and someone on one of the last 

My late partner designed (some of?) the instruments in Concorde's flight deck. I don't know if he was on the first flight but he and his family certainly flew on it at some time.

[snow66!]

Who gets to decide who is a 'terrorist' and who isn't?  Who gets to decide when the harshest sanctions are put in place and for which country? If you are a Palestinian living in fear in the West Bank, how do you apply meaningful sanctions to the people who are terrorising you?

Yes, no doubt it is complicated, Roch!
I'm not sure why Iran and Israel are enemies anyway?
Iran had grievancie's with Britain after oil was discovered and the UK took the greatest share of the profits, finally leading to Iran trying to privatize the industry and run things themself in 1951, but the UK couldn't have that and caused a coup 1n 1953 eventually helped by the US who placed the Shah into power and jailed the rightfully elected leader.
From then on many Iranians were suspicious of the US and protested their interference, and then relations got a lot worse after the Ayatollah regained power in 1979.
So, I suppose the Iran issue stems from the UK grabbing an unfair share of the oil revenue and then causing a coup helped by the US when the Iranians tried to privatize the industry and run things on their own.
Of course its slightly more complicated than that, Britain initially made a deal with Iran around 1908 or there about to carry out drilling and oil exploration. The deal included an upfront sum of money and the Iranians would receive 16% of the profits, not a fair deal, but Iran was a poor country at the time and didn't have the funds to explore for oil themselves.
Anyway, i'm still not sure what went so wrong between Israel and Iran after 1979, Roch? Any ideas?
I suppose it may be due to the fact that Israels main ally is the USA, who has helped to arm Israel over the years?

[Roch]

Yes, no doubt it is complicated, Roch!
I'm not sure why Iran and Israel are enemies anyway?
Iran had grievancie's with Britain after oil was discovered and the UK took the greatest share of the profits, finally leading to Iran trying to privatize the industry and run things themself in 1951, but the UK couldn't have that and caused a coup 1n 1953 eventually helped by the US who placed the Shah into power and jailed the rightfully elected leader.
From then on many Iranians were suspicious of the US and protested their interference, and then relations got a lot worse after the Ayatollah regained power in 1979.
So, I suppose the Iran issue stems from the UK grabbing an unfair share of the oil revenue and then causing a coup helped by the US when the Iranians tried to privatize the industry and run things on their own.
Of course its slightly more complicated than that, Britain initially made a deal with Iran around 1908 or there about to carry out drilling and oil exploration. The deal included an upfront sum of money and the Iranians would receive 16% of the profits, not a fair deal, but Iran was a poor country at the time and didn't have the funds to explore for oil themselves.
Anyway, i'm still not sure what went so wrong between Israel and Iran after 1979, Roch? Any ideas?
I suppose it may be due to the fact that Israels main ally is the USA, who has helped to arm Israel over the years?

Hello Snow. Thanks I see you have checked this all out. Good question - what went wrong between Iran and Israel, and from when?