Pat Brown's Take On JB's Case (and David Bain's)

[Jane]

She is entitled to her point of view Steve but if she is going to slate someone who has be acquitted on line she should at least study the case in great detail. I don't think she has?

Have you done enough of an in depth case study to be certain she hasn't?

[Rob_]

Have you done enough of an in depth case study to be certain she hasn't?

Yes for example the "gurgling"

[Jane]

Yes for example the "gurgling"

So the whole of your assumption is based on "gurgling"? I believe it's been claimed, by an 'expert' that bodies/corpses can "make noises". I suppose said expert would have witnessed such or they wouldn't have made the claim? It may have been a one off/one time only but I'll bet it was leaped upon by an ambitious defence lawyer.

[Steve_uk]

She is entitled to her point of view Steve but if she is going to slate someone who has be acquitted on line she should at least study the case in great detail. I don't think she has?

Each case deserved a couple of hours, rather than lumping them together. I think she suspected David Bain of being a copycat killer: both sons wanted a fresh start, both had access to a .22 weapon, both used a scapegoat to conceal their crimes, both were family annihilators.

[handymanz]

If David Bain's premeditated plan was to blame it all on Robin, why would he mention Laniet's gurgling.

[Zoso]

Pat Brown is a woman from the US who claims to be a criminal profiler.  On her website she claims to have a master's degree in criminal justice from Boston University.  Her wiki page states she holds a MA in Criminal Justice.  Currently Boston University offers a Bachelor of Science (BS) in Criminal Justice:

https://www.patbrownprofiling.com/patbio.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Brown_(criminal_profiler)

https://www.bu.edu/academics/met/programs/criminal-justice/bs/

I personally think the woman is an armchair sleuth.  Nothing wrong with this but I object to someone professing to have professional qualifications relevant to the subject under discussion if they do not. 

I first came across Pat Brown when I was on the so-called Red forum on the Madeleine McCann board.  I did not pay any particular attention to her input.  At the time and up until the last few days I assumed, wrongly imo, that she was a bona fide criminal profiler with relevant qualifications.  Her name popped up on the MM board here a few days ago and I idly googled her to check out her credentials.  The alarm bells started ringing. 

Handyman mentioned she had also covered JB's case which I have since found on YouTube.  I find it difficult to watch as she lacks the sort of circumspection and gravitas you would expect from a criminal profiler. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drfIypw4wqM

https://www.bu.edu/academics/met/programs/criminal-justice/mcj/

[Rob_]

So the whole of your assumption is based on "gurgling"? I believe it's been claimed, by an 'expert' that bodies/corpses can "make noises". I suppose said expert would have witnessed such or they wouldn't have made the claim? It may have been a one off/one time only but I'll bet it was leaped upon by an ambitious defence lawyer.

No I said for example did I not?

[Cambridgecutie]

But that's one case, and you transpose it onto Laniet Bain. How many more victims do you know shot three times ( in the left cheek, above the left ear and on the top of the head) and are able to gurgle fifteen minutes later?

It isn't one case.  Its your know it all attitude and ignorance.  You are unable or unwilling to take on board any objective data that does not fit with your narrative.  Someone technically deceased can make all sorts of noises and movements for some time afterwards:

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+sort+of+noises+does+the+body+make+after+death&rlz=1CARGFB_enGB953GB953&oq=what+sort+of+noises+does+the+body+make+after+death&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRifBdIBCjExMzQ5ajBqMTWoAgiwAgHxBXLdU175WA4b8QVy3VNe-VgOGw&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e537e7f4,vid:nIkZflVieUI,st:0

[Cambridgecutie]

Her argument was the defence sometimes concocts a scenario which both lawyer and defendant know to be  fabricated.

Please provide an example.

[Cambridgecutie]

Julie states it was Jeremy who broached the subject of fostering to sow discord amongst the family unit.

Well another witness by way of CC's mother, Mrs Brencher, claims in her wit stat that June was in fact discussing foster care.  Please bear in mind both June and SC were receiving psychiatric treatment from Dr Ferguson ie both women were mentally ill. 

[Cambridgecutie]

Absolutely, Jane. It matters not one jot what her qualifications are. She would have been rumbled by now anyhow, as even if she did an online course there would have to be tutors, who would have called her out by now had she been a fraud.

I have asked you several times who would call her out?  I know logic and reason are not your strong points but:

- In her YouTube vids she claims to have an ex-husband.  Is the surname she goes under, 'Brown', her maiden name, married name or some other name?
- She goes under the first name of 'Pat' is this her full first name or an abbreviation for some other name and if so what?
- The woman's wiki page shows she was born in 1955 and is 71 years of age.
- The population of US currently stands at 349,035,494
- Based on Boston Uni data for 2024/25 it currently has some 38,000 students from 140 plus countries

For anyone to check out her credentials with BU it would be necessary to confirm her full name and years attended.  Any guesses?

Afaik she has never claimed to be employed by anyone as a criminal profiler.  On this basis no employer has carried out background checks. 

Is there any evidence she has ever been paid by anyone for anything connected to 'criminal profiling'?

Afaik the only income she has ever earned from 'criminal profiling' is through her books.  In many instances the books receive terrible reviews calling her out as a fake.  I haven't read any of her books but reviewers state she claims to be self-taught which is different to what is stated on her webpage and wiki.

What would be the incentive for anyone to spend time and money calling out a woman who is clearly a fake?

[Cambridgecutie]

You can take her point of view or leave it. Pat Brown is not a monopoly source.

Thanks.  I'll leave it.   

[Cambridgecutie]

She is entitled to her point of view Steve but if she is going to slate someone who has be acquitted on line she should at least study the case in great detail. I don't think she has?

Imo she comes over as a stereotypical American: loud and obnoxious!

[Cambridgecutie]

So the whole of your assumption is based on "gurgling"? I believe it's been claimed, by an 'expert' that bodies/corpses can "make noises". I suppose said expert would have witnessed such or they wouldn't have made the claim? It may have been a one off/one time only but I'll bet it was leaped upon by an ambitious defence lawyer.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+sort+of+noises+does+the+body+make+after+death&rlz=1CARGFB_enGB953GB953&oq=what+sort+of+noises+does+the+body+make+after+death&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRifBdIBCjExMzQ5ajBqMTWoAgiwAgHxBXLdU175WA4b8QVy3VNe-VgOGw&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e537e7f4,vid:nIkZflVieUI,st:0

[Cambridgecutie]

Each case deserved a couple of hours, rather than lumping them together. I think she suspected David Bain of being a copycat killer: both sons wanted a fresh start, both had access to a .22 weapon, both used a scapegoat to conceal their crimes, both were family annihilators.

More flawed logic and reason:

- If she suspected DB of being a copycat killer who was he attempting to copy?  If you are suggesting JB why would he choose to copy someone who ended up behind bars?   

- Both RB and SC may also have wanted a fresh start.  Both believers in an afterlife.
- Both RB and SC had access to a .22 weapon
- The prosecutions successfully argued at trial JB and DB used a scapegoat and were family annihilators.  DB later acquitted.  2 down, 1 to go 

Consider the case of Colin Howell: not one staged suicide but two!  Colin Howell's own confession some 18 years later brought him to justice.  According to the Police Ombudsman NI, the police investigation was "deeply flawed":

https://www.policeombudsman.org/investigation-reports/current-investigations/police-investigation-deeply-flawed