What documentation is being withheld which could benefit Jeremy?

[snow66!]

I wonder if they'll be doing their own experiments with pork crackling

What I was hoping for, was Vanezis or Knight to comment on the bruising and fractures to Nevills head, Jonathan!
I want their opinion about whether these injuries may have possibly been inflicted two or three hours before Nevill was killed.

[Jane]

What I was hoping for, was Vanezis or Knight to comment on the bruising and fractures to Nevills head, Jonathan!
I want their opinion about whether these injuries may have possibly been inflicted two or three hours before Nevill was killed.

Surely, had such a thought ever crossed their minds, it would have been suggested forty years ago?

[Jonathan]

What I was hoping for, was Vanezis or Knight to comment on the bruising and fractures to Nevills head, Jonathan!
I want their opinion about whether these injuries may have possibly been inflicted two or three hours before Nevill was killed.

i think they'd first need to deal with the pork crackling

[Adam]

For Bamber theory to be credible he would have needed to have been shot after speaking to him on the phone.

The defence had to say Nevill phoned Jeremy after Sheila shot him and June 9 times in bed. They cannot invent pre shot conversations.

Nevill instantly deciding his best option after being shot 4 times at 3.00am was to start ringimg Jeremy is very mysterious.

[ILB]

The defence had to say Nevill phoned Jeremy after Sheila shot him and June 9 times in bed. They cannot invent pre shot conversations.

Nevill instantly deciding his best option after being shot 4 times at 3.00am was to start ringimg Jeremy is very mysterious.

What do you mean " Don't invent "

Offer an alternative theory.

The theory by the prosecution is that Nevill couldn't speak to Jeremy as he had already been shot and this would have prevented him from engaging with Jeremy.

Counter it.

[ILB]

Nevill instantly deciding his best option after being shot 4 times at 3.00am was to start ringimg Jeremy is very mysterious.

His injuries would have meant he wouldn't have been able to speak.

Jeremy has to counter that.

[ILB]

A defence counsel has to raise doubt.

The cornerstone of the defense case is Jeremy received a call from Nevill Bamber.

[snow66!]

Surely, had such a thought ever crossed their minds, it would have been suggested forty years ago?

Yes, well possibly, Jane!
But remember they couldn't even agree what made the marks on Nevills back nor when they were made, so it may have been the same with the bruising and fractures to Nevills head? And neither Vanezis or Knight were trying to fit their evidence into a specific scenario.
I mean, the CT claim that the burns were caused after death, but no one suggested that at Trial, again it would be interesting to know Vanezis opinion about that.
The CT have also suggested that Nevill 'may' have been beaten after death.
Its just that after reading about the formation of bruising and internal bleeding after a beating I believe that the likes of Vanezis may have an idea of how long before death the beating to the head occurred!
Remember, Vanezis even knew which order Sheila's shots were fired by the internal hemorrhaging that occurred, so may be able to give a view about when Nevilld head injuries happened prior to death?

[lookout]

 There definitely is a marked difference in injuries before and after death, though it's up to a coroner at the post mortem to verify this difference. I think firstly, we're all intelligent enough to realise that a deceased person doesn't bleed, regardless of the depth of injury and a coroner would say at the time which injuries occurred during life and death.
Has there ever been such information put forward regarding inquests ?

[Jonathan]

Yes, well possibly, Jane!
But remember they couldn't even agree what made the marks on Nevills back nor when they were made, so it may have been the same with the bruising and fractures to Nevills head? And neither Vanezis or Knight were trying to fit their evidence into a specific scenario.
I mean, the CT claim that the burns were caused after death, but no one suggested that at Trial, again it would be interesting to know Vanezis opinion about that.
The CT have also suggested that Nevill 'may' have been beaten after death.
Its just that after reading about the formation of bruising and internal bleeding after a beating I believe that the likes of Vanezis may have an idea of how long before death the beating to the head occurred!
Remember, Vanezis even knew which order Sheila's shots were fired by the internal hemorrhaging that occurred, so may be able to give a view about when Nevilld head injuries happened prior to death?

What did the CCRC said about the previous claim from Bamber that the marks were caused by the heated barrel without the silencer?

[Jane]

Yes, well possibly, Jane!
But remember they couldn't even agree what made the marks on Nevills back nor when they were made, so it may have been the same with the bruising and fractures to Nevills head? And neither Vanezis or Knight were trying to fit their evidence into a specific scenario.
I mean, the CT claim that the burns were caused after death, but no one suggested that at Trial, again it would be interesting to know Vanezis opinion about that.
The CT have also suggested that Nevill 'may' have been beaten after death.
Its just that after reading about the formation of bruising and internal bleeding after a beating I believe that the likes of Vanezis may have an idea of how long before death the beating to the head occurred!
Remember, Vanezis even knew which order Sheila's shots were fired by the internal hemorrhaging that occurred, so may be able to give a view about when Nevilld head injuries happened prior to death?

Snow, ,have you never wondered why you, and others, and the CT, keep making suggestions? I suspect it's because none of you wants to accept JB 's guilt, ergo you all root around in the dark trying to find something which might, possibly, perhaps, maybe, get picked up by someone/anyone and worked on. This far, nothing anyone has found, in 40 years, points to his innocence, whilst much, insisting their words, makes liars out of innocent people.

Clearly, from your last post, Aga burns never entered the consciousness of anyone connected to the case.............and it's taken Boyce, having had one theory rejected, the best part of 40 years to come up with. If such was so obvious, why was that, do you think?

[snow66!]

Just had a lookie at Vanezis profile_
   
          Professor Peter Vanezis,  Emeritus Professor of medical sciences.
          Emeritus seems to mean retired, but then he would be, Peter is now 78years old by golly!
His E-mail and phone number is listed, so easy enough for anyone to get in touch with.
In fact!!! I may drop him a line myself regarding the burns to Nevills back!
I would say, listen up now Pete, we've been discussing the three burns to Nevill Bambers back in the WHF case and were wondering if you could help with a few medical questions?
You see, at trial you were unsure of what caused the marks, but as you probably know, Philip Boyce has suggested they were made by moderately hot parts of the Aga oven and formed over several hours!
Now this makes sense as i'm sure you will agree, being inflicted accidentally while Nevill was lying against the Aga is far more logical then suggesting deliberate foul play from either Jeremy or Sheila?
Thing is Pete, we're trying to fit a guilty Sheila scenario around Boyce's Aga burn theory and you may be able to help! We believe that if the Aga was responsible for the burns then they must have occurred when Nevill was still alive, as the police found him perched on a chair and 'not' lying with his back against the Aga knobs, capiche?
So, looking at Nevills injuries, do you think its possible that some may have occurred at a different time that night? I am referring mainly to Nevills head and face injuries sustained by the rifle,  you described a fractured skull, two black eyes as well as various other cuts and bruises, now going by the colour of the bruising, can you hazzard a guess as to how long before death they had been inflicted?
What I am asking is, could the beating to the head have happened between 2-3 hours before Nevill was shot and died? is this a possibility??
Anyway, as you can see, if the burns were formed much earlier that night then it casts grave doubt on JBs guilt as he wouldn't be hanging around for several hours waiting for Nevill to regain consciousness after lying against the Aga with a fractured skull!
Anyway, thanks for your time Peter and hope to hear from you soon with your conclusions on the Aga matter!
          Yes, that is the gist of what I would say to Professor Peter Vanezis in a letter or E-mail!!
Oh, and I would have to add a p.s!

 One other thing, Peter! Does the crime scene photos and Nevills liver mortis results prove beyond a doubt that he was shot to death in the position he was found perched on the chair/scuttle, or could liver mortis have re-established if the police moved him to that position after entry? Thankyou!!

[Adam]

What do you mean " Don't invent "

Offer an alternative theory.

The theory by the prosecution is that Nevill couldn't speak to Jeremy as he had already been shot and this would have prevented him from engaging with Jeremy.

Counter it.

'Cannot' invent.

The defence cannot invent a long conversation between Nevill & Sheila which escalates.

Besides which Nevill/June being shot 9 times in/by there bed & Nevill/Sheila/June being found bare footed in sleeping attire does not support it.

[Adam]

Yes, well possibly, Jane!
But remember they couldn't even agree what made the marks on Nevills back nor when they were made, so it may have been the same with the bruising and fractures to Nevills head? And neither Vanezis or Knight were trying to fit their evidence into a specific scenario.
I mean, the CT claim that the burns were caused after death, but no one suggested that at Trial, again it would be interesting to know Vanezis opinion about that.
The CT have also suggested that Nevill 'may' have been beaten after death.
Its just that after reading about the formation of bruising and internal bleeding after a beating I believe that the likes of Vanezis may have an idea of how long before death the beating to the head occurred!
Remember, Vanezis even knew which order Sheila's shots were fired by the internal hemorrhaging that occurred, so may be able to give a view about when Nevilld head injuries happened prior to death?

The burns were caused between shots 5-8 or after shot 8. This was also after Bamber's brutal kitchen attack. So quite possible after death.

No reason he would beat Nevill after death.

[ILB]

'Cannot' invent.

The defence cannot invent a long conversation between Nevill & Sheila which escalates.

Besides which Nevill/June being shot 9 times in/by there bed & Nevill/Sheila/June being found bare footed in sleeping attire does not support it.

You don't have to invent a long conversation just an alternative theory that he spoke to Jeremy Bamber before he received the first four shots.