Breakdown of Sheila's drowsiness in days/hours leading to massacre.

[ILB]

At least he admitted to his heinous crime. Let's hope Bamber is never released.

Bamber would be no danger if released tomorrow in my view.

In fairness I always believed his 25 minimum should have stood.

I don't believe politicians should interfere with the judicary. Whether that be Jeremy or anybody else.

[ILB]

A 25 year minimum tariff is exactly that. The bare minimum.

Jeremy would have never been released anyway. No Offence work done because he denies his crime.

The prison service accepts the verdict as gospel and encourages people on life sentences to engage in the system with offence related work.

This is very complex in Jeremy's case as he denies the index offence.

[Adam]

I couldn't watch that film in its entirety. A small clip on YouTube and I had to desist.

The man was pumped with adreleline via a tube. So he didn't pass out while an electric saw started sawing him.

The dictionary definition - torture. 

[ILB]

The man was pumped with adreleline via a tube. So he didn't pass out while an electric saw started sawing him.

The dictionary definition - torture.

Spite dedregation etc.

We're not psychologists and we've not the benefit of knowing what exactly may have been in Jeremy Bambers mind that night. Wealth was the primary motive but I believe a lot of hatred and disdain as well.

Nevill had dictated the mans life for 24 years.

[Adam]

I couldn't watch that film in its entirety. A small clip on YouTube and I had to desist.

Butler spoke to man for several minutes beforehand. Telling him what he was going to do to him.

That would be part of a torture routine. Playing mind games & installing extreme fear to the fully focused victim beforehand.

[snow66!]

To me Snow it’s the most fitting and simplest explanation, Boyce was right the first time when he said it was caused by the rifle.  I don’t think Bamber would want to take off his gloves and rely on a pulse check, especially when there was a better option,  prodding and pushing is more faster than trying to locate the pulse, this way he keeps his gloves on and keeps hold of the weapon.


For it to be the Aga Snow you have to move away from the simple explanation and either go down the route of Neville’s body being moved by police officers so they could burn evidence, or going against medical Science, I don’t think for one minute Medical science would back up a functional Neville coherent enough to walk, talk and run upstairs and down again after hours unconscious?  Recovery after such would be slow, slurred speech,  unbalanced and unable to stand and confusion and possible vomiting.

Yes, I agree with your last sentence, HB! As I have said before, Nevill would indeed be extremely shaken if he had recieved blows to the head, especially if his skull was fractured at that time.
Upon coming round he would have struggled to a seat in a confused state, then recalled vagually what had happened before phoning JB for help! Then, upon struggling to his feet he would have staggered upstairs shouting out to June but only alerting Sheila unfortunately, who set upon him with the rifle at the top of the stairs. So with two bullets in the jaw area a fatally injured Nevill slowly backs off and stumbles down stairs, a slow moving target receiving further shots in the shoulder and arm!
It was amazing really that Nevill summoned up the power to make it to the kitchen at all, and alas it was a futile exercise anyway, all he could do was stumble onto a chair and hold up his one good arm in a vain attempt to protect himself.
Sheila prods at Nevills arm and whacks at his head and shoulders, he eventually succumbs to his injuries as he topples onto the side of the chair, his head landing in the coal scuttle.
Sheila is now free to put four more bullets into a motionless and probably lifeless Nevill!

[Steve_uk]

Yes, I agree with your last sentence, HB! As I have said before, Nevill would indeed be extremely shaken if he had recieved blows to the head, especially if his skull was fractured at that time.
Upon coming round he would have struggled to a seat in a confused state, then recalled vagually what had happened before phoning JB for help! Then, upon struggling to his feet he would have staggered upstairs shouting out to June but only alerting Sheila unfortunately, who set upon him with the rifle at the top of the stairs. So with two bullets in the jaw area a fatally injured Nevill slowly backs off and stumbles down stairs, a slow moving target receiving further shots in the shoulder and arm!
It was amazing really that Nevill summoned up the power to make it to the kitchen at all, and alas it was a futile exercise anyway, all he could do was stumble onto a chair and hold up his one good arm in a vain attempt to protect himself.
Sheila prods at Nevills arm and whacks at his head and shoulders, he eventually succumbs to his injuries as he topples onto the side of the chair, his head landing in the coal scuttle.
Sheila is now free to put four more bullets into a motionless and probably lifeless Nevill!

But a light fitting was smashed, suggesting Nevill got a hold on the Anschütz and used it to leave his mark. It backs up Julie's story of what Jeremy told her: the overkill, the result of years of resentment, the glove coming off in the fight, information which she couldn't have gleaned from the newspapers.

It's the most likely scenario in my opinion.

[Adam]

Yes, I agree with your last sentence, HB! As I have said before, Nevill would indeed be extremely shaken if he had recieved blows to the head, especially if his skull was fractured at that time.
Upon coming round he would have struggled to a seat in a confused state, then recalled vagually what had happened before phoning JB for help! Then, upon struggling to his feet he would have staggered upstairs shouting out to June but only alerting Sheila unfortunately, who set upon him with the rifle at the top of the stairs. So with two bullets in the jaw area a fatally injured Nevill slowly backs off and stumbles down stairs, a slow moving target receiving further shots in the shoulder and arm!
It was amazing really that Nevill summoned up the power to make it to the kitchen at all, and alas it was a futile exercise anyway, all he could do was stumble onto a chair and hold up his one good arm in a vain attempt to protect himself.
Sheila prods at Nevills arm and whacks at his head and shoulders, he eventually succumbs to his injuries as he topples onto the side of the chair, his head landing in the coal scuttle.
Sheila is now free to put four more bullets into a motionless and probably lifeless Nevill!

'Phoning Jeremy for help'?

Jeremy instantly phoned Julie to 'hear a friendly voice'. That was helpful.

[Adam]

I couldn't watch that film in its entirety. A small clip on YouTube and I had to desist.

Some tortures can last months or years.

Al-qaeda terrorists were locked up and given different forms of torture.

[Hardy Boy]

Yes, I agree with your last sentence, HB! As I have said before, Nevill would indeed be extremely shaken if he had recieved blows to the head, especially if his skull was fractured at that time.
Upon coming round he would have struggled to a seat in a confused state, then recalled vagually what had happened before phoning JB for help! Then, upon struggling to his feet he would have staggered upstairs shouting out to June but only alerting Sheila unfortunately, who set upon him with the rifle at the top of the stairs. So with two bullets in the jaw area a fatally injured Nevill slowly backs off and stumbles down stairs, a slow moving target receiving further shots in the shoulder and arm!
It was amazing really that Nevill summoned up the power to make it to the kitchen at all, and alas it was a futile exercise anyway, all he could do was stumble onto a chair and hold up his one good arm in a vain attempt to protect himself.
Sheila prods at Nevills arm and whacks at his head and shoulders, he eventually succumbs to his injuries as he topples onto the side of the chair, his head landing in the coal scuttle.
Sheila is now free to put four more bullets into a motionless and probably lifeless Nevill!

Ha Ha you write with Fantastic imagination I’ll give you that Snow,  Neville Shaken,  Hours of unconsciousness means brain failure, not ‘shaken, shaken is when you’ve been frightened or shocked or upset,  if only head trauma patients actually behaved like characters in your Hollywood story, you’ve turned a serious head trauma into a cosy Neville Nap.

[snow66!]

But a light fitting was smashed, suggesting Nevill got a hold on the Anschütz and used it to leave his mark. It backs up Julie's story of what Jeremy told her: the overkill, the result of years of resentment, the glove coming off in the fight, information which she couldn't have gleaned from the newspapers.

It's the most likely scenario in my opinion.

I dont think any meaningful fight in the kitchen was possible, Steve!
The two shots to the jaw alone were potentially fatal!

[snow66!]

'Phoning Jeremy for help'?

Jeremy instantly phoned Julie to 'hear a friendly voice'. That was helpful.

Well Nevill didn't know that Sheila had shot anyone when he phoned JB, Adam, all he could do was tell JB that she had gone crazy, probably meaning that she had bashed him with the rifle.

[snow66!]

Ha Ha you write with Fantastic imagination I’ll give you that Snow,  Neville Shaken,  Hours of unconsciousness means brain failure, not ‘shaken, shaken is when you’ve been frightened or shocked or upset,  if only head trauma patients actually behaved like characters in your Hollywood story, you’ve turned a serious head trauma into a cosy Neville Nap.

It may well sound like something out of a cheap whodunnit, HB, but I honestly cant think of another Aga burn scenario!

[Adam]

Well Nevill didn't know that Sheila had shot anyone when he phoned JB, Adam, all he could do was tell JB that she had gone crazy, probably meaning that she had bashed him with the rifle.

Agree that Nevill did not phone Chelmsford Police station.

[Adam]

It may well sound like something out of a cheap whodunnit, HB, but I honestly cant think of another Aga burn scenario!

Bamber's scenario is Nevill fell onto the cold aga door. Then was moved into the coal scuttle pre photos by the raid team or police.

The 1985 raid team & police WS's all say Nevill was in the coal scuttle upon entrance.